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Anyone seen the story of the Nevada Rancher Cliven Bundy vs the Fed Govt?


Jim Oaks

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Government class teacher was correct, not sure if maybe you missed the point.
Point being, if you want a change in your city, state or country YOU HAVE TO TELL an elected official your point of view about it, whether it's the State Song or too much Federal interference, doesn't matter what side you are on you just need to let someone know what change you would like, officials are not mind readers.
Teacher telling students "how they should vote" on an issue, well that's where parents should come in and explain to their kids that it is their choice not anyone elses, because all through the rest of their lives people will be telling them "how they should vote", the sooner they learn their options the better.
And NOT VOTING is a valid choice, arguably not the best choice but still a valid choice.
Not one person died for my right to vote, those that gave their lives, died for my right to choose, and they are honored for that sacrifice.
To be forced to vote or to be denied voting, is called a dictatorship, choice is the point.
NO, THE TEACHER IS DEAD WRONG. Teaching the kids to be get involved and have their voice heard is good, but telling them they will get extra credit to tell a politician how to vote is wrong. It's bribery. The correct thing would have been to tell them if they agree to call, but if they disagree, they should get an alternative option for extra credit.
 


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BLOODBANE, I don't think this is as much an issue about paying the grazing fees, as him protesting the Federal Governments control over so many things. I think Mr. Bundy feels the government has to much control, and that the state should have more control than it does.

It's more of him bitching about states rights vs federal government control.
 

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NO, THE TEACHER IS DEAD WRONG. Teaching the kids to be get involved and have their voice heard is good, but telling them they will get extra credit to tell a politician how to vote is wrong. It's bribery. The correct thing would have been to tell them if they agree to call, but if they disagree, they should get an alternative option for extra credit.
As a voter you are suppose to tell your elected official how to vote on issues, if they don't vote the way you want when the time comes, then you get another elected official next time.
Extra credit means it doesn't count against you if you do not do it, so no downside for the student.

I guess we agree to disagree

Kudos on the post BLOODBANE
 

kimcrwbr1

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O.K. heres my take on this (Im a cattle Rancher and yes we have BLM leases, about 25000 acres worth).

We are told by the rules the BLM puts in place as to what and how many cows we can run, this also includes time in said area. This has been steadily decreasing (both numbers and time). My great grandfather and his son and one broter put all the roads in to said area. We have constantly improved the water hole (springs) and improved seeps into working watering spots. We are at half the numbers with half the time (that my great grandfather had). Now, do we like it? No. Do we "own" the land? No, just the grazing. We pay every year for the use (grazing lease) on public or "BLM" land. Does some of the new law/rule suck? You bet.

If we dont pay the lease, we get a fine (which Im guessing some of Bundy's debt is fines). We have been told to shoot illegal animals on our lease. Like I said before, WE DO NOT OWN THE LAND. Just the grazing lease.

Now everyone is up in arms about the mean old government picking on some poor defenseless rancher. I got an idea, PAY YOUR LEASE. Crowds of people are flocking in, with an "Im right and the stupid government is a big ole meanie pants" attitude. Back to my point, "PAY YOUR LEASE!
Now said crowds are going after BLM/LEO's in a threatening manner. What do you think is gonna happen? What would you do if your armed (either weapon or dog) and someone does that to you? Dont tell me your NOT gonna feel threatened, and act accordingly (you know you would protect yourself).

All the crowds are most likely people who dont have the whole story (I dont have the whole story either, but Im not protesting). I do know that our local BLM office tries to work with us on any (and i do mean ANY)problem that may arise. You also have to remember that BLM/State Forest is under public scrutiny as well (I.E. earth muffins if you will, that say man is destroying the entire world, and they cause lots of headaches, trust me).

Its best that the gov. pulled out, because all that was gonna happen, would have been some "good" Samaritan would have been killed, while some happy asshole was filming on his smartphone and then the $hit would have really hit the fan


In essence PAY YOU LEASE, and if there is a problem try to act like a human being and not throw a fit (both sides).
There will be a day when you will be asking for help and your state will have given up all control to a overreaching fed. It really dont matter who you vote into your state legislature if the federal government is in direct control of your livelyhood. Once they can no longer harvest your wool it`s off to the rendering plant.
 

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As a voter you are suppose to tell your elected official how to vote on issues, if they don't vote the way you want when the time comes, then you get another elected official next time.
Extra credit means it doesn't count against you if you do not do it, so no downside for the student.

I guess we agree to disagree

Kudos on the post BLOODBANE
Not my country nor my political system. But, if this is a civics class, seems like a no-no for the teacher to be drumming up support for one side of an issue, specially the students he/she is entrusted with, and has real and perceived power over.

To be a proper lesson in civics, should the teacher not have offered special credit to students who contacted their representative and informed of their concerns, whether FOR or AGAINST?
 

Jim Oaks

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As a voter you are suppose to tell your elected official how to vote on issues, if they don't vote the way you want when the time comes, then you get another elected official next time.
Extra credit means it doesn't count against you if you do not do it, so no downside for the student.

I guess we agree to disagree

Kudos on the post BLOODBANE
I must not have provided enough information.

They were to call the state rep and tell them to change the song to the one being suggested. Not to tell them they want to keep it, or to voice their own individual opinion.

They were told that if they vote one specific way they would get extra credit (let me further explain that to simplify this. I'm going to use the term 'vote' instead of stating that they were to call the state rep and tell him how to vote on their behalf. This just makes it easier to explain).

With the extra credit:

Let's say (2) kids both have a 'B'.

Neither like the song change.

One kid doesn't vote because he doesn't likes the change, and therefore still has a 'B'.

Another kid doesn't like the song change, but votes in favor of it for the extra credit. He now has an 'A' from his newly earned extra credit.

For politicians, replace 'B' with say $10,000, and 'A' with $50,000.
 

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BLOODBANE, I don't think this is as much an issue about paying the grazing fees, as him protesting the Federal Governments control over so many things. I think Mr. Bundy feels the government has to much control, and that the state should have more control than it does.

It's more of him bitching about states rights vs federal government control.
Totally agree with this statement Jim. You hit the nail on the head.
 

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It has everything to do with his grazing lease. He paid it up until 20 yrs. ago. That says he recognized the fed. gov.

And as far as me asking for help, you dont know much about me. I, right now, need a kidney (EGFR= estimated general filtration rate/ is at 12), I should be on dialysis (the normal time is when you hit 15), and have an offer from a live donor. I am not accepting said offer (its a lot to take from someone). I am on the transplant list (pancreas/kidney) and will be hospitalized for at least 1 1/2 months after the surgery. I also have diabetes (have had it for 30 yrs), and have never blamed anyone or asked for help treating it (yes I take at least 3 shots a day) Dont try to fit into my shoe's until you have lived in them a while. When I dont have the means to feed my cattle (Oh wait because of the drought I have sold most of mine off)I will cut my numbers down.

Look up Bundy's lease (it public record) and then go ask your local BLM office on their take. Talk to them as a human being and not with a holier than thou attitude. Your gonna find that they are people too. If you have never had to deal with them on something like this, then you have no idea whats involved (Im not talking about LUR's and closing trails, which this will lead to).

I still feel the gov. did the right thing by pulling out and not letting the crowds incite further violence (if he had paid his lease would you even know about Cliven Bundy?)
 
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Good to see a "FEW" patriots on this thread..
I for one hope it ends peacefully.. surely looks like a land grab, however we may never honestly know the truth. The government has the control to spin this anyway they want .:sad:
 

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This ain't over by any means.

You think the Fed is just going to walk away? Ha!

Even old Reid said it aint over today.
snip from article:
Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said.
http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Sen-Reid-on-Cattle-Battle-Its-not-over/nT5weKnqFkezV14I5GhESg.cspx

Also this today:
snip:
The executive director of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association says his sources inside the federal government warn that Washington’s weekend retreat in a dispute over grazing land in Nevada was only a move to distract attention and diffuse tensions, because a raid on the family’s ranch still is planned.
http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/sheriff-feds-strategize-for-raid-on-ranch/
 

96Indyram

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I have been following this on a few other forums since it started. I will post a few things on here for you fine folks.:


this is from Clevin Bundy's daughter, now married of course.................... Perhaps it will help understand the issue at hand.

This was copied directly from a post she made on their blog last week. (I will keep her name off of it.)

I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight.Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it is in a nut shell.My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972.These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights.Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve.Instead they began using these money’s against the ranchers.They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with their own grazing fees.When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job.He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business.Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the indangered species card.You’ve already heard about the desert tortis.Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years.Now they’re desperate.It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff.Everything they’re doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.Now you may be saying,” how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you.They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again.Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him.Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed.Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it.They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them.All with our tax money.They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars.See how slick they are?Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”
 

96Indyram

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56 other ranch families were grazing the same 600,000 acres and gave up due to BLM. Mr. Bundy and family did not...they are the last family standing.
Why pay BLM to run you out of business by regulating your cattle herd...then try and buy you out with your own money?

1,000 head of cattle on 600,000 acres is a misuse of public land? That is 937.5 square miles folks!

This isn't about cattle. This isn't about some damned turtle. ( they killed alot of the turtles in a sanctuary due to budget cuts)

Look at the Feds behavior.

This is all about the LAND and CONTROL.
(articles about BLM and fracking rights on the land
http://www.naturalnews.com/044670_BLM_lies_fracking_leases_Bundy_ranch.html#ixzz2yW0fByzI
and also Reid's solar deal also)

This is why this is striking a chord with many Americans.

Don't believe the propaganda spin that makes you chalk Bundy up to a tax evader. He tried to pay the tax to the country government, but they were afraid to take it.

BTW, just think of the propaganda they will use if/when it becomes YOUR turn.


also the Fed and BLM has spent more on man power and equipment this last week than any damn ol cow is worth...think about it. They say he owes a million in back fines ( that he refused to pay BLM..but tried to pay the state instead, it is STATE land)...so that justifies spending 2 or 3 million to get it?
 
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96Indyram

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Also BLM has shut down the airspace on 4-11-14 over the area there...still shut down as far as I know.

NOTAM : 4/1687

FDC 4/1687 ZLA NV..AIRSPACE MESQUITE, NV..TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS WITHIN AREA DEFINED AS 3NM RADIUS OF 364624N/1141113W (MMM71 RADIAL AT 4.3NM) SFC-3000FT AGL LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.137(A)(1) TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT. ONLY RELIEF AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS UNDER DIRECTION OF BLM ARE AUTHORIZED IN THE AIRSPACE.

BLM TELEPHONE 702-335-3191 IS IN CHARGE OF ON SCENE EMERGENCY RESPONSE ACTIVITY. LOS ANGELES /ZLA/ ARTCC TELEPHONE 661-265-8205 IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. 1404112140-1405111434

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/notam_actual_4_1687.html

__________________________________________________________

Now why shut down the airspace ( 3 mile radius around ranch)...woulden't be to keep news choppers away would it? I am curious when the BLM had control over the FAA?
maybe need to change their name to Bureau of land & AIR management.




.
 
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Why does everyone these days equate with legal civil disobedience with breaking the law? Seems lots of people do. The law comes from the people, for the people, by the people unless we let the gummint and its minions take it from us...and once that starts it's a landslide. I can't fault the Fed employees for doing their jobs, cause they have to feed families, etc., too, but sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand and stand up for what the founding fathers gave you and everyone else. You can't get it back without a fight after they take it from you...too many have died in my family since the Revolution, serving this country, for me not to say the Fed is wrong, wrong, wrong in this one.
 

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