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Tell me if this 302 is a good motor for me to use as a swap


Welpracing

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Found a 77 ford truck with a 302 and c4 trans. Would this be a good motor to start with for a swap in my 88 ranger? I am wanting a engine with minimal electronics. i would plan to rebuild it
 


Welpracing

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My ranger is a trail rig that end goal is trail rig/crawler so my other question is am i better off going newer with fuel injection for the hills and steep angles i will be doing?
 

2trux

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After many years of 4-wheelin with a carb and all the problems with vapor lock, bump flooding, changing jets at high altitude, etc. I would have loved having fuel injection. Unfortunately this was back when FI was rare and aftermarket units were way out of my price range.
My take: If you are going to wheel it you will be much happier with FI.
 

RonD

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I would agree.
Fuel injection is superior in all ways to carb, except 1, user knowledge, but that is something you can change :)

We know more about carbs for one simple reason, we had to work on them ALL THE TIME, lol, with repetition comes knowledge, and a certain comfort level in how they work.

Fuel injection is reliable so rarely needs any attention, but when it does we have to learn from scratch, and there is a lot to learn, just like first time with a bad carb.


Fuel injection requires a computer of some kind, to adjust air/fuel mix on the fly.
Carbs just used Jets, the more air that passed by the Jets the more fuel was sucked out, pretty simple setup, also not to precise, lol.

The computer needs sensors and controls to calculate, and implement, air/fuel mixes accurately, and than means wiring and more parts.
So it is no small step to go from carb to EFI

Thankfully Ford has done all the hard work for you, you can buy a 302/5.0l lower and upper intake with injectors and sensors, 5.0l computer and wiring.

If you want 4x4 then transmission needs to be for a 4x4, can't convert an automatic 2WD to 4WD easily.
C4 is fine to use, no computer control is needed.
I think C4/C5 were the last Ford automatics that had detachable Bell housings, without having to do a full rebuild that is.
C6 and AOD had integrated bell housings but also didn't need computer control.

If you use any of these, with EFI, then you will want an EFI computer from a Manual Trans vehicle, not from an automatic vehicle.

If you plan on rebuilding 302 with a cam or higher compression then you will want a MAF(mass air flow) computer.
Ford used 2 types of EFI computers in the 1980's to mid-90's
Speed Density EFI, uses a MAP sensor and "looks up" air/fuel mixes from a table in memory, so it can't change mixes much if you modify stock engine.
In carb terms Speed Density EFI means main Jets are fixed can't be changed, so limited fuel flow set for stock engine

Mass air EFI, used a MAF sensor and could make changes on the fly based on air flow into the engine, so you can modify engine and get more horse power.
MAF EFI, would be the same as changing main Jets to add more fuel because of engine upgrade, but it does it automatically, up to a point :)
 
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85_Ranger4x4

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A lot of work for an engine that made maybe (optimistically) 150hp 40 years ago. :dntknw:

I think that is in the era where they had decent heads but increased the deck height of the block to lower compression. Later on (I think '78) they figured out they could do that with the heads and went back to the original deck height.
 
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Welpracing

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thanks everyone! The guy is selling it pretty reasonable is why i was asking. think i am gonna go with your advise and hold off for a deal on fuel injection setup. only thing that worries me is with my rig being without doors and the controllers being exposed to moisture.
 

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The computers were mounted in engine bay most of the time, computer itself is moisture proof, the connector was where you could have issues, but they can be sealed and filled with dielectric grease to keep moisture out.

You want a 1996 or earlier setup, they still used 60 pin computer, EEC-IV.
After that they were 104 pin, EEC-V, and required more sensors to operate properly.
And when getting into the later '90's they had PATS, passive anti-theft system, a whole other layer of wiring issues, lol.
 

Welpracing

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The computers were mounted in engine bay most of the time, computer itself is moisture proof, the connector was where you could have issues, but they can be sealed and filled with dielectric grease to keep moisture out.

You want a 1996 or earlier setup, they still used 60 pin computer, EEC-IV.
After that they were 104 pin, EEC-V, and required more sensors to operate properly.
And when getting into the later '90's they had PATS, passive anti-theft system, a whole other layer of wiring issues, lol.
sweet good info. Here is a question i got then. What all ford models had a 302 with fuel injection before 1996? i work at a car dealership and see all kinds of trade in's come in that go to auction. just would like to be able to keep and eye out for some as they pass by to get one.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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Anything fullsize.

Cars, F-150's, E-150's, Broncos. Late 80's to mid 90's.

My 302 was out of a '87 Crown Vic and was injected.

I have heard of people modifying Tupperware type containers to keep computers out of water.
 

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AllanD

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I personally grew up in the era of carbs, and once I had a car with fuel injection I had no interest in anything else...

But I did once own a 2wd Toyota with dual side-draft Mikuni-Webers...

The truck also had an unsynchronized race transmission and a dual-disc clutch....
(A friend wrecked his SCCA Celica Race car)

I've owned (all in the past) a rather lengthy list of late 1960's performance cars
both built up and factory from all the manufacturers...

and all had carbs and honestly the carbs were the source of almost all the problems
I had with those cars....

Generally Holley carbs were the most trouble and I have fond memories of my 340 Dodges
with their AVS-Carter carbs...

Of particular annoyance was the Holley that was on my 351 (4V Cleveland) Mustang.

People talk a lot about the 4V Cleveland but few have ever experienced living with one

If I had 100million dollars I would buy an original Boss350 Mustang and drive it a few times
to remind me how annoying it could be then bury it under a dung-pile...

If you owned one and got a sudden urge for a pint of Cherry Garcia at 2am some morning and your only car was a Boss 351 mustang I'd hope you own a bicycle or that the nearest 7-11 was within walking distance...

If you didn't set fire to it the eighth or ninth you flooded it trying to start it you are a more patient man than I am...
and actually it catching fire is something it would often do all by itself I had to extinguish the flames and I'm not sure to this day why I didn't just get out the hotdogs and marshmallows...

I was actually relieved when that car was stolen AND WRECKED (totalled) within two blocks of where it was stolen from...
(I'm still kind of impressed that the thief got it started with out flooding it...

The insurance company paid me three times what I had paid for the car and I parted it out for nearly
five times what I'd originally paid for it... I'm convinced the car was either cursed or demonically possessed
But the car thief running it into that tree seems to have exorcised the demon....


I can understand how he lost it, that car tried to kill me every single time I sat down in it and twisted the key
and shifted it into gear...

That 351-4v engine behaved like it had a big nitrous bottle that was under control of an evil prankster
that would push the button on a 200hp shot at the worst, most unexpected moments.

All things considered my 350 (L48) SS Nova (which I nearly died in when I wrecked it) was a much
more "tame" car, even though the only way to be sure it would be pointed in the direction of travel
was to tow it or hook it to a heavy trailer...

My 383 Dart was by comparison as stable as a cobblestone... and as reliable as my coffee machine.

Forgive me for rambling on, but life is too short to spend any of your time dealing with the annoying
device knows as a Carburetor...
 
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85_Ranger4x4

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Forgive me for rambling on, but life is too short to spend any of your time dealing with the annoying
device knows as a Carburetor...
I don't deal with mine, I just drive it.

It cracks right off and I have had no complaints for the 5 years I have had it.
 

don4331

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welpraning:

I'm coming down on other side of fence - at least partially.

If you plan on rebuilding the engine anyways, the '77 block is far better starting point (not as good as '69 though). And it is 351 which grew .025 in deck height in '71 for lower compression, 302 has same deck throughout its career.

By late 80s/90s; Ford had put the Windsor block on a significant diet and removed significant strength too. (It is not unheard of for 'built' 5.0s to suddenly become 2 - 2.5l blocks with a common crank...)

So, take your '77 engine and build up a long block just the way you want it. Then, when a nice '96-97 Explorer comes in - grab it (it will have the MAF EFI and the serpentine belt you want). I would say use the GT-40 heads from the Explorer but there are better ones if your budget allows it.

p.s. Ford 302s come with 19lb/hr injectors, so at Ford's recommended 85% duty cycle that equates to 258hp (Ford Racing catalog p 215).

AllenD: Enjoyed your ramble about carbs - I have fonder memories. (but I still like EFI better).

428 CJ started 2nd cylinder up every morning, but I never could get the automatic choke to work consistent - went to a manual and all was fine. Good torque in F-100 4x4!

Dual Webers under hood of my Omni (Dodge used VW engines in initial Omni's - which meant a GTI 16v was a bolt in; I wasn't up to K-Jetronic at time so used carbs) liked a fine tune before any serious exercise, but embarrassed a lot of late 80s Mustangs and Camaro's (including my wife's 5.0) while providing what at the time was considered, decent fuel economy. It wouldn't start in -40 cold, but otherwise fun car.

Carbs did allow us to burn leaded (important for farm kid as it meant I could fill up from the bulk tank). And we had lots of fun with putting "pop" in outer carbs of my buddies 340 6-pack: You got a heck-of shot when the "secondaries" cut in - was real hard for competition to figure out how we were doing it.

But enough of my rambling...
 

Dmgctrl88

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I converted my 2.9 harness to work with the 5.0. I used an F150 computer from 93.

I only had to change the power steering pressure switch pins on the 60 pin connector in the cab (optional) and have a bung in my pressurized power steering line, basically when the computer gets a signal that you are using the power steering heavily, it will increase the RPM's good for 4x4 if you ask me.
 

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