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D35 clutch pack cheat


Wasp

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My DD is a first gen Explore hiding under a B2 body. Here in the North East we get our share of greasy conditions, snow ice mud, it's a good. With a locker rear and open D35 it isn't so bad. But the ultimate would be a locker for the D35, I currently have an Aussie in the 8.8,and love it! The problem with a D35 locker is, in ice and snow even mud, driving becomes a little house of horrors, going kinda straight is fine but foot of the gas and the front end wants to swap ends with the rear. thus my reasoning for a D35 LSD. I found a D35 LSD out of a Jeep, and yes it's the correct year, for descent $. But like anything else, I need to tweak it a bit. I remember for the 8.8 LSD there was a certain order you could put the clutches in to get it a little more bite out of the rear tires. Is anyone aware of particular order or pattern to boost a D35 LSD clutch pack?

Thanks,

J :popcorn:
 
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4x4junkie

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I'm not aware of a way other than to use less (or no) friction modifier in it. The 8.8" L/S can be made stronger by rearranging the clutch steel discs in an alternating fashion where I think the D35 clutches might already be that way.

Hands-down the best locker you can put in there is a selectable locker (ARB, etc.). No handling quirks when you don't need it, full traction at the push of a button when you do. Selectable lockers are more $$$ than other types, but very well worth it IMO, especially for a front axle.
 

Wasp

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I've looked everywhere for anyone that has built or modified a D35 LSD clutch pack and there are non to be found. I did score a set of HP clutches, maybe that will bode well for better traction. Junkie I appreciate your advice to go to a straight locker. My problem there is, I drive in snow and Ice 5 months out of the year and unless I install a D44 system like the Rubicon has where the diff is in LSD until the flick a switch to full locker, I'm kinda stuck having a LSD. I understand there are also geared LSD like the Detroit Truetrac helical-gear style limited-slip differential. But that's money I don't at the moment. I would rather spend $500 on doubler.

thanks again for all your great help

J
 

4x4junkie

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I think you're mistaken... The Rubicon front diff functions the same way as an ARB selectable locker does (open diff/fully-locked, there is no 'limited-slip' function). When you need the locker, you push a button, it spools the diff and you have full traction. When you don't need it, you leave it off and then it acts just like any other stock open diff would (this is why they call it a "selectable" locker). A limited slip is actually almost as likely to send you sideways on ice as a locker would be.
 

bobbywalter

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dude.


for predictable consistancy...a lsd is worthless in the front on snowy roads and increases the unpredictability factor by infinity.


traction is increased for sure....the levels of it are varied...i would rather have a spool.


i tried a locker out and just broke shit even faster....so i went to brake bias for situations where i needed to limit the slippage and aid traction... it sucks compared to a locker but better then being open.


i suggest to buy a spartan for summer and put the spiders back in for winter with brake bias for the situations where you raise a front tire to low traction.
 

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What is brake bias? And how do you accomplish it?

Richard
 

bobbywalter

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brake bias is when you over ride the 3 or 4 channel abs system to stop a wheel on demand.

theres several earlier traction control gm systems that allow apply via pump but thats too complicated compared to a 3 channel setup that is on the oem ford applications.


basically you lock the rear brakes out and either the left or right and leave open the brake on the wheel that is spinning and manually apply with your foot by pumping to force the tire with traction to turn. so it allows you to skid steer and do nice waterbox burnouts etc depending on what type of lockers you have


i had a write up of sorts for it but cardomain retarded the site all up and wrecked it all.


 
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Wasp

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Not sure where this bias stuff came from but as far as the Rubicon LSD / Locker diff. combo. This info came from a Jeep guy while I was winching out of a washout.. :) He bragged about how superior his Jeep diffs. were to my Bronco's stuff. OK cool, that'll be $50 for pulling you out of that trench. As for swapping out my carrier twice a year from locker to open.... no. I'll try the LSD, if it seems dangerous I'll deal with it then. Thanks for your input guys. I was just looking for pros and cons to a LSD in a D35 TTB.

J
 

4x4junkie

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bobbywalter

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i went to brake bias because i could not justify the cost of a select-able locker and got into trouble with a lsd, and broke stuff too fast with a locker. but i always have had v8 power in those situations as well.


so brake bias is a viable solution. if your hung and need the traction tire to go you can force it by stopping the spinning tire and modulating it with brake pedel pressure.

a really good lsd can be very dangerous in winter out front. but it may be good for you and your setup. unfortunately finding out can come at high cost to you and others like many things with vehicle modifications. the cost of buying and installing a decent unit is not too bad, but if you dont like it your fawked.

i would probably get one out of a jeep at the junkyard to try out with fresh clutches...if you have oem gears just buy another piglet to set up and swap out.



rubicon axles are superior to normal rbv axles for traction, no question about that at all.
 

Kona

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Had no problems with a lunchbox out front , in winter YOU UNLOCK ONE HUB if you are worried but need "4" wheel drive. And lock the other in if you need more, I found the rear locker much more exciting then the front in winter.
 

bigmark303

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I have detroit true tracs in the front of two of my full time trial rigs. By far the best LSD on the market. I have absolutely no issues steering or driving through terrain any time of the year in 4wd.

Ive had locked front (very short lived), LSD front, and open front. LSD is by far the best in any situation that warrants 4wd to be used. That meaning if you throw the truck in 4wd at the first sign of snow and are driving on slippery roads with barely any snow accumulation then come on now of course a limited slip or locker in the front is going to be scary. You shouldnt even need 4wd in the snow until at least 8" to a foot is on the road.

Put the limited slip in and youll be happy. Lockers in the front suck except for straight paths, open is actually not that bad if you know how to pick a path and limited slip is great if a good unit that locks up in good time.
 

bobbywalter

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Had no problems with a lunchbox out front , in winter YOU UNLOCK ONE HUB if you are worried but need "4" wheel drive. And lock the other in if you need more, I found the rear locker much more exciting then the front in winter.
I have detroit true tracs in the front of two of my full time trial rigs. By far the best LSD on the market. I have absolutely no issues steering or driving through terrain any time of the year in 4wd.

Ive had locked front (very short lived), LSD front, and open front. LSD is by far the best in any situation that warrants 4wd to be used. That meaning if you throw the truck in 4wd at the first sign of snow and are driving on slippery roads with barely any snow accumulation then come on now of course a limited slip or locker in the front is going to be scary. You shouldnt even need 4wd in the snow until at least 8" to a foot is on the road.

Put the limited slip in and youll be happy. Lockers in the front suck except for straight paths, open is actually not that bad if you know how to pick a path and limited slip is great if a good unit that locks up in good time.


one hub is worse in my experience especially under power in evasive or emergency situations.., typical true-trac is a good unit in my experience as well.


and i give you this, with a traction lock that is fresh, when you have your hubs locked yet in 2wd steering in icy conditions can be a horrid issue. found this out the hard way in a old dodge. took a bit to figure out wtf was going on and hit a curb and ditched it to get to that point. normally steering with throttle and the rear wheels works great...but not when the lsd is spooling the front axle at the worst possible time. lucky nothing bad happened pure and simple. a locker would not have caused the intermittent spooling issue i was having with the lsd...simple as that. though a typical tru-trac would not have the issue either.

a stopped watch is still right twice a day....so knowing when your lucky or right or lucky and right is more then useful. since i have the luck of jumping in a barrel full of titties and come up choking on a dick every time, i take care to certain issues since generally i drive massive miles per year.

winter conditions are straight up unpredictable. where you drive the most is a bigger condition to what differential is best over any other.


once the trac lock breaks in its useless anyway except to run you off the road unexpectedly going over a iced overpass when one tire is low or something so it really dont matter.
 

bigmark303

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The real issue is just knowing what you have for a drivetrain and what it can and cant do.

Living in New England all my life 2wd can handle most any road with up to 8" of snow. If you are on a road thats paved or hardpack gravel/dirt there is always traction under the snow. You may slip time to time but its not at all hard to get around in 2wd all winter on the roadways.

When you engage 4wd in deep snow 8" or more there is so much resistance that it doesnt matter that the limited slip kicks in because unless you are pedal to the floor its not going to pull you very far off your path because of the snow depth you are trudging through already.

The LSD winter horror storries come from guys who throw the truck in 4wd at the first sign of snow and drive on paved roads that are partially plowed and have more ice (nothing is good on ice) than snow. Any 4wd truck in those conditions with even an open differential can still lose enough traction on ice that under throttle both front tires get power and pull like a locker.

Dont be afraid of an LSD just be knowledgable of what it is, how it functions, and the conditions you are using it in.
 

bobbywalter

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sawzall?
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My credo
it is easier to fix and understand than "her"
your right about the dodge, i did not initially know it had a tight clutch posi in it. it was not my truck and was used to plow the lot and a spare vehicle.


because i know how all the systems work, i figured it out fairly quickly and unlocked the hubs.

8 inches of snow in 2wd is easy enough in certain given conditions, 8 inches of snow on some of my routes ends up being 4-8 foot peak drifts in the very worst areas it can happen regularly, so driving with the hubs locked in most of the winter is also a given.

the horror stories are not just stories, and i certainly agree most people are just ignorant about their drivetrain. the percentage of front clutch style tracloks on the road regularly from the manufacturer for winter climates in vehicles without plow packages is microscopic.

you see people talking about the idiots blowing by them in 4x4's....and the joke is most of the time i have to pull those idiots out, they are not in 4x4. some dont even know how to turn it on....many times i drove the vehicle back to the road.

and most of the rwd vehicles i do extract have lsd rear diffs, and the stories are very similar to how it come out from under them. of course if your aware of it and drive accordingly you limit any issues.

my lsd sneaks up on me all the time on the road....and its never there when i need it off road. it was in the axle when i installed it so i left well enough alone. if it was a open diff i would have installed a drop in locker...at least i would have usable traction with that.


this guy knows he is installing it, he will be vigilant.

but truck to truck, you swap a diff out traclok for open in slimy conditions with any intelectual honesty for road driving....i put my money on the open front for better manners. open front and rear for best manners.
 

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