Engine Pinging 2000 2.5L

Gearbox94 · Sep 16, 2017

Hey everyone, just recently swapped a motor into my truck as the old one was toast. With that being said the used motor had around the same mileage. So after getting it swapped in and hooking everything up i went to start it. It made alot of racket for the first few minutes tapping and what almost sounded like knocking. so after it warmed up everything went away and it ran smooth and i haven't heard those noises again even on cold start up. Now after bleeding the cooling system and taking it for a drive i'm getting this awful pinging at just about any throttle input. And to make things worse when taking off from a stop i get this knocking when i start to let the clutch out and put a load on the engine. It only knocking when taking off, when accelerating or cruising i don't hear anything. If i rev the engine off of idle slowly i can hear the knock faintly and it appears to be coming from the top end. So with me being new to these rangers i was hoping someone could give me some insight as to whats going on with this truck. I sent the better half of the morning chasing down vacuum leaks and think i pretty much got them all sealed. The truck did pop one CEL code and it was for the Idle Air Control Valve. said it was malfunctioning and i can believe it, in between every shift the revs shoot up and hang until you let the clutch back out. So if anyone has any ideas on what to try next i would greatly appreciate it. Until i get these issues resolved i cant take it for a smog test to get it registered.

RonD · Sep 16, 2017

Welcome to TRS

2000 was the last year Ford made the Lima engines, first used in Pintos in 1976 I think
Your 2.5l is a stroked 2.3l SOHC, it was only made from 1998 to 2000, only difference from 2.3l is crank and connecting rods for the longer stroke, same pistons, heads, valves, cam, and block as the 2.3l
So info about the 2.3l Lima will apply to 2.5l

Rangers built the first half of 2001 got the 2.5l, mid-year and after Rangers got the 2.3l DOHC Duratec engine, no relation to 2.3l Lima

Lima engines were one of the better engines ever built by any one, they just last

So that's the background

Pinging is caused by pre-ignition(self igniting), fuel in the cylinder ignites before spark plug fires, so you get multiple "explosions" at the same time and that's what makes the noise, diesel engines run on "pre-ignition", compression ignition, which is why they can sound pingy.

Cold pinging is usually caused by carbon build up inside the head and a Lean fuel condition.
Lean fuel mix can self ignite easier
Carbon build up increase compression ratio so increases heat up of the air/fuel mix

What did the spark plugs look like in used engine?

Lean fuel mix also causes high idle, but so can vacuum leak.

MAF(mass air flow) sensor fine tunes the computers air/fuel calculations, it needs to be clean every few years, easy to do.

If your old engine had running issues then it may have fouled the O2 sensor, O2 sensor also hep[ls computer fine tune air/fuel mix, might need to replace it, just the one closest to the engine.
O2 sensor is only used after 4 or 5 minutes after cold start

EGR system, if you only get pinging when accelerating or when engine is under any load then could be blocked EGR tube or bad EGR valve
That should set a code

Knock can be another word for pinging
But you are using it differently I think
Knock can be exhaust manifold leak, or failing connecting rod, they sound similar.

I don't think you have anything specific to a Lima engine or Ford
Used engine is a roll of the dice at best

Try some Seafoam in the gas tank, that will clean injectors, may help with a Lean mix, and clean out some carbon build up
You can test fuel pressure, 60-65psi is expected in 2000 engine running, no lower than 45psi engine off after 30 minutes

You are getting rid of the air leaks which is good

To test that all leaks are gone
Warmed up engine, idling
Unplug the wires on the IAC Valve
Idle will drop to 500 rpm or engine may even stall, either is good, it means no air leaks
If idle stays high you haven't found them all

Gearbox94 · Sep 16, 2017

RonD said:
Welcome to TRS

2000 was the last year Ford made the Lima engines, first used in Pintos in 1976 I think
Your 2.5l is a stroked 2.3l SOHC, it was only made from 1998 to 2000, only difference from 2.3l is crank and connecting rods for the longer stroke, same pistons, heads, valves, cam, and block as the 2.3l
So info about the 2.3l Lima will apply to 2.5l

Rangers built the first half of 2001 got the 2.5l, mid-year and after Rangers got the 2.3l DOHC Duratec engine, no relation to 2.3l Lima

Lima engines were one of the better engines ever built by any one, they just last

So that's the background

Pinging is caused by pre-ignition(self igniting), fuel in the cylinder ignites before spark plug fires, so you get multiple "explosions" at the same time and that's what makes the noise, diesel engines run on "pre-ignition", compression ignition, which is why they can sound pingy.

Cold pinging is usually caused by carbon build up inside the head and a Lean fuel condition.
Lean fuel mix can self ignite easier
Carbon build up increase compression ratio so increases heat up of the air/fuel mix

What did the spark plugs look like in used engine?

Lean fuel mix also causes high idle, but so can vacuum leak.

MAF(mass air flow) sensor fine tunes the computers air/fuel calculations, it needs to be clean every few years, easy to do.

If your old engine had running issues then it may have fouled the O2 sensor, O2 sensor also hep[ls computer fine tune air/fuel mix, might need to replace it, just the one closest to the engine.
O2 sensor is only used after 4 or 5 minutes after cold start

EGR system, if you only get pinging when accelerating or when engine is under any load then could be blocked EGR tube or bad EGR valve
That should set a code

Knock can be another word for pinging
But you are using it differently I think
Knock can be exhaust manifold leak, or failing connecting rod, they sound similar.

I don't think you have anything specific to a Lima engine or Ford
Used engine is a roll of the dice at best

Try some Seafoam in the gas tank, that will clean injectors, may help with a Lean mix, and clean out some carbon build up
You can test fuel pressure, 60-65psi is expected in 2000 engine running, no lower than 45psi engine off after 30 minutes

You are getting rid of the air leaks which is good

To test that all leaks are gone
Warmed up engine, idling
Unplug the wires on the IAC Valve
Idle will drop to 500 rpm or engine may even stall, either is good, it means no air leaks
If idle stays high you haven't found them all

Hi, thank you for the reply! I'll check the exhaust again in the morning and make sure it's not leaking at the manifold. It really does sound like it's coming from somewhere under the valve cover.

I'll also try unplugging the IAC tomorrow and see what happens. Usually though the idle only hangs when the truck is moving, as soon as I come to a stop it comes back down to normal idle.

I think I'm going to replace the MAF sensor, when I took the truck apart before the engine swap the old motor was puking oil into the the intake piping from the throttle body and some of the oil got on the MAF sensor. I tried cleaning it but i suppose with the issues I'm having I might as well replace it.

RonD · Sep 16, 2017

Idle should stay above 1,000rpms until speedometer is under 5mph approx.
And RPMs should hold(stay high) when shifting gears, but only for 5 to 8 seconds
These are both things that lower emissions.

Replace O2 if you had oil in the intake

Never read about a Cam bearing failure in a Lima, rockers could fail, not common but not unheard of either.

Bill · Sep 17, 2017

Oil can cause pinging too and it doesn't take very much. If it is due to oil the cause can be from oil getting past valve stem seals or worn piston rings.

Gearbox94 · Sep 18, 2017

So i went out and picked up a scan tool today to help trouble shoot and i took a video of the live stream data after it was up to temperature. Hopefully someone here knows how to read fuel trims and other data. I'll post the video of the live stream data and also the clip i got of the truck making the knocking sound under load. Let me know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbsKUNzqLTw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne1Grt1Ku-c

Mark_88 · Sep 19, 2017

this is something that has interested me since moving to a FI engine and trying to troubleshoot one. I can't answer the questions but short of someone with a good explanation posting for you I always resort to YouTube to get an idea.

I found several videos on this topic so it is something that many people are interested in...this one seemed short and to the point for a basic analysis but there are others that are more technical...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIJdCZgEiys

Gearbox94 · Oct 5, 2017

So i made some headway on the issue. I picked up a used MAF sensor from a local junkyard and popped it in and went for a drive. The pinging is still there but nowhere near as bad as it was. It only pings now if i'm at 1/2 throttle. Driving down the highway at 70mph or so it pings constantly but atleast it derivable at slower speeds. I'm going to rent a fuel pressure tester tomorrow and see what kind of pressure the fuel pump is putting out. Aside from the fuel pump what are some other things to check? I've put 2 different sets of plug in it and brand new wires. I've also tried two different sets of coils.

Mark_88 · Oct 7, 2017

Thanks for the update...good to hear something worked for your problem. It think RonD covered most of the problem areas that affect the lean/rich conditions that may lead to the pinging...maybe look for a vacuum leak...I've been seeing a few people lately that are finding the brake booster seals are causing problems and it is one of the most unlikely places we look for that sort of thing...even the seal around the main line can be deteriorating with age...

The problem with getting old...

I meant to mention also the carbon buildup that may be enhancing it...I ran some of that Sea Foam through my engine once and it helped a bit with rough idle...which I wasn't too concerned about but could only attribute the smoother running to that treatment.

Some people swear by the stuff...

tomw · Oct 8, 2017

You may need an 'Italian tune-up', i.e., running the rpms up in the lower gears a bit more than normal. Carbon deposits can build if you don't rev the engine now and again, but baby it. You can also spritz HOH into the intake with the engine running at high idle. The H2O will turn to steam as the engine fires, and more or less steam the carbon off the piston crowns and combustion chamber. You will stall the engine if you feed it too much at a gulp.
tom

WarHawk-AVG · Oct 9, 2017

Gearbox94 said:
So i went out and picked up a scan tool today to help trouble shoot and i took a video of the live stream data after it was up to temperature. Hopefully someone here knows how to read fuel trims and other data. I'll post the video of the live stream data and also the clip i got of the truck making the knocking sound under load. Let me know what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbsKUNzqLTw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne1Grt1Ku-c

First video: The ODBII, the MAF didn't change at all when you revved it up, it should change

2nd video: That thunk doesn't sound healthy quite health (could be my cheap ass speakers)

Where did you get this engine? What happened to your old engine...

What kind of oil are you running?

Is there any stutter or shaking in the engine (aka miss fire in a cylinder [computer would throw a code though)

Poor mans fuel cleaner...get some mineral spirits or old cheap ass ATF....I put 1/4 quart in my gas tank and fill it up, 1/2 quart if I think it needs some cleaning...then drive it...about 1/2 way thru the tank I hotdog it and see how fast I can go from 0-60 but only once (punch it occasionally to "clear it's throat" so to speak) just not all the time

Gearbox94 · Oct 13, 2017

WarHawk-AVG said:
First video: The ODBII, the MAF didn't change at all when you revved it up, it should change

2nd video: That thunk doesn't sound healthy quite health (could be my cheap ass speakers)

Where did you get this engine? What happened to your old engine...

What kind of oil are you running?

Is there any stutter or shaking in the engine (aka miss fire in a cylinder [computer would throw a code though)

Poor mans fuel cleaner...get some mineral spirits or old cheap ass ATF....I put 1/4 quart in my gas tank and fill it up, 1/2 quart if I think it needs some cleaning...then drive it...about 1/2 way thru the tank I hotdog it and see how fast I can go from 0-60 but only once (punch it occasionally to "clear it's throat" so to speak) just not all the time

It definitely has a knock of some sort. I don't think its a rod bearing as you can only hear it when you blip the throttle from idle or put the engine under a load. It sounds fine when i hold the revv's around 2500rpm and up and there's no knocking when i let off the pedal and it comes back to idle.

So when i bought the truck i knew it had engine problems, it had a horrible misfire and spewed smoke if driven over 30MPH. I did a compression test and cylinders 2 and 3 had 60 and 80 PSI. It also had horrible blowby. i pulled the PCV line off and it was chugging smoke out like a steam engine.

I'm wondering if there's a fuel delivery problem specifically the fuel pump. If it's creating a lean condition and causing the pinging i'm wondering if that's what happened to the old engine, the previous owner was pushing the engine to hard with the lean condition and popped one of the pistons.

I don't think its the fuel rail or injectors as i used both from the engine i picked up. And as for the engine itself, it was a craigslist special.. 200$ from a truck that was rear ended.

Mark_88 · Oct 14, 2017

Part of the problem with blow-by is that fuel can leak into the oil because the rings are usually wonky...that dilutes the oil...the diluted oil is not nearly as good at lubricating the engine and things start to wear out faster...you have less "hydraulic" pressure so the rods don't meet up with the lifters as they should and you will get the knock...

Do you change the oil frequently or do you consider adding oil more often than normal as mini changes?

I used to go through about a litre a day if I was doing long trips so I figured I was changing the oil about once a week sometimes.

tomw · Oct 16, 2017

gearbox:"So when i bought the truck i knew it had engine problems, it had a horrible misfire and spewed smoke if driven over 30MPH. I did a compression test and cylinders 2 and 3 had 60 and 80 PSI. It also had horrible blowby. i pulled the PCV line off and it was chugging smoke out like a steam engine."

I would be checking the radiator for combustion gas, or leak. Get a rubber glove, and put it over the radiator cap fitting on the radiator. Start the engine, and watch the glove. If you have gas leakage, the glove would start to inflate quickly.
Other than that, I'd be checking for a blown head gasket between #2 and #3. Many times two adjacent cylinders having poor compression is a sign of a bad head gasket.
Have you tried adding a Tbsp of oil to the cylinder(s) and checking compression after? The oil can seal up the rings if they are leaking, at least long enough to show a big increase in compression. If there's no change, then low compression is valve or gasket related... unless the piston is previously converted to a ventilator/agitator from holes.
tom

Engine Pinging 2000 2.5L

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