85 2.3 help!!!

Rangerfireman383 · Oct 9, 2017

Ok guys, I've been lurking around here for quite a while, reading and looking at wiring diagrams, etc., but to no avail I cant get my truck fixed. The list of what has been done to it as far as checking wiring, diagnostics, etc could fill up a novel. When I originally started trying to fix it, it had a dead miss that was random and could not be forced to duplicate. After reading codes (koeo and koer), I came up with a PIP signal issue amongst other codes like ect, iat sensors out of test range. Pretty much every sensor on the engine has thrown a code and has been replaced, along with a rebuilt distributor, new coil, plugs, wires, IAC valve and solenoid and TFI module to name a few. Specifically after replacing the distributor, it started surging when it was started cold, sometimes cutting off, and will clear out after it warms up for a minute. It has progressively gotten worse, and electrical load will cause it to surge of cutoff even after it is warm. If the heat, or anything electrical is switched on suddenly, the engine will skip or even start surging and sometimes cut off. I am at wits end with it, and need some help. Ideas? Oh, forgot to mention that I took it to a well known mechanic that I have known for years who got it running better, but its still not right. Surely there is someone out there who has experienced this and has some ideas. Sorry for the long post, but wanted to be as thorough as possible.

Mark_88 · Oct 9, 2017

Hi and welcome...although I've seen your name before I don't remember seeing other posts...maybe the introduction post...anyway...

Sounds very much like a bad ground wire somewhere. The fact that turning on something causes the engine to falter indicates an interruption of the power.

could be a loose wire inside the dash...bad ground in any of the circuits...or multiple bad grounds that need to be cleaned up.

Could even be a wonky battery wire or loose connector on the post.

I would suggest a thorough check of all the grounds...starting with the actual starter relay on the fender -> to the battery -> to the starter -> and the starter motor itself (needs to be checked once in a while to ensure it isn't vibrating loose).

If you've done any mods or changes to things like the radio, heater controls, fuse panel, wiper relay under the dash (if applicable) or pretty much anything electrical (I know you mentioned things done have been extensive)...

And finally...the wiring for the distributor itself. If rebuilt then that should cover it...but there is (or should be) a ground inside the distributor that should be inspected and ensured to be grounded) but since the issue is sporadic I don't suspect that...but could be.

Inspect all the wire harnesses around the EGR also...they can get melted if in contact with hot pipes and once the wire coating is gone there is a potential for arching and loss of power/signal.

not an enviable task because I've done it several times...very frustrating issue to nail down.

Rangerfireman383 · Oct 9, 2017

Mark_88 said:
Hi and welcome...although I've seen your name before I don't remember seeing other posts...maybe the introduction post...anyway...

Sounds very much like a bad ground wire somewhere. The fact that turning on something causes the engine to falter indicates an interruption of the power.

could be a loose wire inside the dash...bad ground in any of the circuits...or multiple bad grounds that need to be cleaned up.

Could even be a wonky battery wire or loose connector on the post.

I would suggest a thorough check of all the grounds...starting with the actual starter relay on the fender -> to the battery -> to the starter -> and the starter motor itself (needs to be checked once in a while to ensure it isn't vibrating loose).

If you've done any mods or changes to things like the radio, heater controls, fuse panel, wiper relay under the dash (if applicable) or pretty much anything electrical (I know you mentioned things done have been extensive)...

And finally...the wiring for the distributor itself. If rebuilt then that should cover it...but there is (or should be) a ground inside the distributor that should be inspected and ensured to be grounded) but since the issue is sporadic I don't suspect that...but could be.

Inspect all the wire harnesses around the EGR also...they can get melted if in contact with hot pipes and once the wire coating is gone there is a potential for arching and loss of power/signal.

not an enviable task because I've done it several times...very frustrating issue to nail down.

Thanks for the response. Tracing grounds is something that i've spent a good bit of time on for sure. I even added a 4 guage ground from starter to frame rail hoping the chassis and engine maybe werent fluent with a good ground. Just short of taking the whole dash out and cutting all the loom off the wiring harness, I've checked them to the best of my ability. I wish I could find a schematic of all grounds to make sure I havent missed any. Just went out and checked the starter and cables; all were fine. :dntknw:

Mark_88 · Oct 9, 2017

OK, good...thanks for the feedback.

How old are the cables on the starter circuit? If new or recent, you can disregard for now but if unsure it might be worth your time to cut the ends off one of the cable and check for corrosion inside the sheath. This was the problem I had after my dash modification and it almost had me buying a new battery and new starter...turned out to be one bad wire in that harness that was not allowing proper contact.

Short of that...the most important ground, other than the starter circuit, is the engine to firewall. this should be covered with the starter ground but on my 96 I found at least 10 grounds under the hood alone that were all important because they were for each circuit and some were doubles for the same circuit. Included in that were body to frame grounds just under the foot well of the cab to the frame.

I was surprised because my 88 originally had about 5 main ground points and no body/frame grounds...

You sound like you have been thorough but I didn't think anyone could be as thorough as I was...and yet after my issue with the starter circuit I realized I simply needed to toss the whole thing out and put in the replacement that I had sitting in a bin...and that was what did it...aside from the extra time I spent redoing all the connectors with new and shaving the sheath back to clean wire and makiing sure there was no corrosion.

Maybe someone else has other suggestions that might help...so hang in there if you can't find it on the first ten tries...

Rangerfireman383 · Oct 9, 2017

I haven’t pulled the starter off yet, but you definitely have a good point. The only cable that hasn’t been replaced would be the starter to solenoid cable. I’ll pull it next and check it and clean all starter connections while I’m at it. 1 thing I forgot to mention originally was that the main fuse panel wire had a melted spot in it that I found and shortened to fix it. It was the black and orange 10guage wire going from the alternator to the fuse panel. That has been the only obvious issue that I’ve found. Gonna go get started pulling the starter now and see what happens. I’m going bald anyway, but this ranger isn’t helping lol

Mark_88 · Oct 9, 2017

Funny you should mention that...I had all my hair when I first bought my Ranger and by the time I sold the latest version of it I was nearly bald on top...

That black/orange wire could indicate that a fuse link on the alternator circuit blew out at some point. They can be replaced but it may be why you see power drops when an accessory is turned on. It might pay to look into that...unless that happened long before the latest problem started and was fixed it could be a clue as to what circuit needs attention.

The alternator needs to ground somewhere and I thought they grounded through the bracket. check the connectors on the alternator to see if anything of the wires is loose...not familiar with the 85 wiring and I vaguely recall what my wiring on the 88 was like...two connectors...one with 3 wires and one with 2 wires...and the bracket was metal bolted to the engine block so I figured that was a grounding method.

tomw · Oct 10, 2017

I f you want to know the reason for the power distribution box, take a look at the battery side terminal on the starter relay. A half-dozen or so ring-terminal fusible links that lead off to who knows where to power all the 'stuff'.
If you get the battery side of the relay loose, those ring terminals can get loose, and fail to pass power off to their consumers. Strange things can happen when that is the case.
If you don't have, try to find an EVTM, Electrical Vacuum Trouble shooting Manual. It has schematics of all wiring(AFAIK) and options on the Ranger and Bronco II.
It has an image somewhere for common ground points, a spot with a lot of black wires radiating from it. I think.
I have gotten the ring terminals arrayed or splayed so that the terminals can lay flat when the nut is tightened. You have to spread them because of the insulated end having a larger diameter where the wire is embedded. Spreading them and keeping good contact for all DOES take some effort. I thought I had them good and tight, but just tried to wiggle them, and they moved even though the nut was tight. Needed more 'arrangement' to allow the terminals to get flat together. Hence, PDB in a few years.
In addition, there will be weird 'stuff' going on if you happen to have a loose terminal on the battery. Things will seem to shut down, such as radio, wipers, and the headlights go dim, and the engine will start to run like it forgot which way to turn, and was allergic to spark and fuel. Loose battery cable can do weird 'stuff', staying polite.
tom

Rangerfireman383 · Oct 19, 2017

Thanks for all the responses. I came across one of those electrical manuals online, and am probably going to order one. The weather has turned off colder here (40f this morning), and didn’t know if I was gonna get to work. Took 15 mins to get it running good enough to leave the driveway, and missed heavily until it got warmed up. I’m hoping I have a chance to get out in the garage today and start looking at wires again.

Mark_88 · Oct 19, 2017

Do you have a block heater by any chance?

If warming it up is an issue it's something that I pretty much cured on my 88 2.0 carbed engine by just adding a block heater. On really cold days (-10 or below) I would plug it in for about 1/2 hour and when I came out it would fire right up, heater in nearly full swing, no hesitation at all, and no worries about battery power.

For three winters I drove that beat up old engine and I think the heater actually extended the engine life beyond what it should have lasted.

The cost is actually very low...I know because my landlady complained that I was using too much energy so I had her show me all the bills...the cost of running the block heater over an entire winter was less than $10 extra...

Anyway...I'm sure you want to actually fix the problem properly...but thought I would throw that out...I bought one for inline on the lower rad hose and installed it in 20 minutes...still have the same unit 6 years later and it still works...

I went to the junkyard and pulled a lower rad hose to use and kept the other one in case I needed it.

This is the one I have...1/2" diameter hose fitting...the heater part number is 3200003...specifically for that size hose.

EDIT: forgot to put in the link...

http://www.partdeal.com/zerostart-lower-radiator-hose-heater-fits-hose-size-1-1-2-in-for-allis-chalmers-and-john-deere-3200003.html

tomw · Oct 19, 2017

one more thing to check that can have effects on a lot of stuff: The ignition switch. It is located on the top of the steering column, underneath the plastic cover. It has a actuating rod that connects to the backside of the lock cylinder. It may be coming apart after all these years. Mine did. It would not stay running, and would just stop whenever it wanted, but would restart immediately, and maybe keep running or stop. The switch has 'stretch' forces on it from the twisted mess of cables/wires that connect to it, and the little nibs that are bent over to keep it together were finally giving up allowing it to come apart. It is an inexpensive part to replace, but you have to remove the 'break off' screws that hold it in place. I used a file to get flats on opposite sides, and a vice-grip to remove the screws. Replaced with regular. Switch was pretty inexpensive.
Loose battery terminal, ring connectors as I noted on relay, and a bad solder joint on the b/or feed wire. There may be a soldered junction somewhere under the hood that can go bad over time. Follow the charge wire from the alternator, the big one, and see if there's a junction, or put a VOM on the wire at the alternator, and then on the connection where the power is used, the fuse box( I guess...) See if the voltages are the same.
tom

Rangerfireman383 · Oct 26, 2017

I’ve been doing a lot more tracing of wires and testing in the last few days, and one thing I ran across today is that if I unplug the voltage regulator, the truck will run perfect. I discovered this and figured maybe the voltage regulator had an issue, so I bought another one and swapped it. Well, no luck with that either. Still surging. I did replace the ignition switch at some point in this saga of ranger hell lol, so the ignition switch is good. Don’t know what else to do. The fact that unplugging the regulator makes it run fine has me really scratching my head. Any ideas?

Mark_88 · Oct 26, 2017

OK...had to find out the difference...not integrated in alternator in that year but you can, apparently, modify yours to take a later style alternator if you want to...there is a video on Youtube to show how...

I found this wiring information on Youtube that might help to check if the wires are running correctly...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjdaTypqj6o

If you have a volt meter I would suggest checking the voltages that the video says should be on those terminals and check the resistance across the fuse links...I believe it would be unlimited if the link is blown...but I'd have to check that to be sure...

I also found a bunch of troubleshooting videos on the charging system that you might want to check out to see what may be causing the symptoms you are seeing.

85 2.3 help!!!

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