1997 cranks but no start

calioak510 · Mar 27, 2014

i have a 97 ranger 3.0 at with 182K. it was running fine yesterday. today it wouldnt start. it cranks but wont run. i did get it to start and run a couple times at first by giving it a lot of gas but it wouldnt stay running and it immediately cut out. i replaced the iac but that didnt do anything. it has fuel pressure at the shrader valve. i am going to check spark tomorrow. i have heard a lot about the camshaft sensor and also the crankshaft sensor in my reading so far. which one of those will not allow the car to start? bc it is not starting at all right now and i tried to start it like i did at first by giving it a lot of gas but it just doesnt want to. it sounds like it is trying to start a little bit but not really. also im not getting any check engine lights coming on. im going to investigate spark tomorrow but i have noticed a squeaking noise sometimes when it is cold and i heard that is associated with the camshaft but also shouldnt that throw a code / CEL ? how often do coils go out on these , im sure mine is stock 182K ... any input would help, thanks.

Rearanger · Mar 27, 2014

Why do you think re-posting this will get you better answers? Have you done anything for yourself? We can't just divine an answer out of thin air.

Tested for spark?
Tested Fuel Pressure?
Sprayed starting fluid into throttle to see if you can get brief start?

RonD · Mar 27, 2014

CKP(crank position) sensor failure will cause a no start because there will be no spark, if engine starts when you add fuel manually then CKP sensor is OK.

CPS(cam position sensor) won't cause a no start, poor running, but engine would start and idle.
The squeaking is most likely the CPS shaft bushing starting to fail, if it does fail then you will have no oil pump and engine will most likely need to be rebuilt depending on the RPM of the engine when it fails, so that issue should be dealt with after you find out why it isn't starting.

What is the fuel pressure at the rail?
A squirt of fuel at the schrader valve isn't fuel pressure, you need enough pressure to push fuel out of an injector.

Do you hear fuel pump come on when you turn on the key?
It should come on for 2 or 3 seconds then go off.

Is the CEL working?
Does the CEL come on when key is turned on and then go off after a few seconds?
If not you may have a computer issue

calioak510 · Mar 27, 2014

Rearanger said:
Why do you think re-posting this will get you better answers? Have you done anything for yourself? We can't just divine an answer out of thin air.

Tested for spark?
Tested Fuel Pressure?
Sprayed starting fluid into throttle to see if you can get brief start?

i havent had my coffee yet but the first part of that answer was straight BS come on now what is that all about. i posted the question differently bc the first one was more focused on the IAC which now i know is not involved. come on now , as far as i know they wont let u delete old posts or i would have , as far as the real questions and input im going to go look at the car in a little while and will have more info

calioak510 · Mar 27, 2014

RonD said:
CKP(crank position) sensor failure will cause a no start because there will be no spark, if engine starts when you add fuel manually then CKP sensor is OK.

CPS(cam position sensor) won't cause a no start, poor running, but engine would start and idle.
The squeaking is most likely the CPS shaft bushing starting to fail, if it does fail then you will have no oil pump and engine will most likely need to be rebuilt depending on the RPM of the engine when it fails, so that issue should be dealt with after you find out why it isn't starting.

What is the fuel pressure at the rail?
A squirt of fuel at the schrader valve isn't fuel pressure, you need enough pressure to push fuel out of an injector.

Do you hear fuel pump come on when you turn on the key?
It should come on for 2 or 3 seconds then go off.

Is the CEL working?
Does the CEL come on when key is turned on and then go off after a few seconds?
If not you may have a computer issue

The CEL is working, I hear the fuel pump come on when I turn the key, I dont know the pressure at the rail , my brother has the pressure tester and i will be trying to get that on there asap to see, but it does squirt pretty good it looks like , as it shot up in the air, but yes i will get more info on what the exact pressure is. im guessing its not the CPS bc it wont start at all, I will see if spraying some starting fluid manually will do anything and report back with the info. thanks.

calioak510 · Mar 27, 2014

I decided to try to start it again just for fun, and it started this time but it was really rough and hard to move, and it threw me a code finally, PO351 (Ignition coil A, Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction) . is this the coil or something else? thanks!

RonD · Mar 27, 2014

I would test the coil first, but could be wire or.........Computer.

Ford 3.0l Coil Pack has 3 separate coils inside, each fires 2 spark plugs, called a waste spark system since each spark plug is fired on the power stroke and exhaust stroke.

The Coil pack has 4 wires, 1 is 12v, battery voltage, red wire
The other 3 are computer controlled Grounds, computer grounds 1 coil to power it and then cuts the ground to fire it, just like the points did in old distributors.

Remove the connector on the coil pack and inspect it for corrosion and the coil pack pins.

Set OHM meter to lowest setting
Touch either probe to coil pin that would be the 12v pin(one end of connector hole)
Touch the other probe to one of the 3 other pins
Should read .5 to 1.3ohms
test next "ground pin"
test all 3 to 12v pin

That was the Primary Coil test, you tested the 3 coils, if one was out of spec then replace coil

Secondary coil test is for the spark plug wire holes.
Set ohm meter for 20k
Each of the "ground pins" is connected to 2 of the spark plug wire holes, and they are lined up in order.
pin 1 spark spark
pin 2 spark spark
pin 3 spark spark
12v

Put one probe on pin 1 and then put other probe in spark plug wire hole, should read 6,500-11,500 ohms, test next hole for that pin 1, should be the same.

test all 3 pins and all 6 holes

calioak510 · Mar 27, 2014

the connector and connection looks good. all the pins were in spec from around .8-1.3 . if i was doing the next part correct, 1 probe to pin 1 and 1 probe in spark plug wire hole , i didnt get any readings it wasnt doing anything. i tried pin 1 to both of the plug holes and then did that for the other pins and other wire holes and i didnt get any readings on the ohm meter. i tested the probes together and it was working. does this mean the coil is bad or something else? thanks for the help

RonD · Mar 27, 2014

Just try measuring between the two spark holes in each set

calioak510 · Mar 27, 2014

each set of 2 plug holes on the coil read over 12.5 with it set on 20K ohms

RonD · Mar 27, 2014

calioak510 said:
each set of 2 plug holes on the coil read over 12.5 with it set on 20K ohms

I would write down results, for Primary and secondary, then take the coil out and take the old coil, AND your OHM Meter to the parts store, have them pull out a new coil and test it with your OHM meter.

Also have a look at this video, it is only 3 minutes, this Ford pack might be closer to the one you are using, so has slightly different parameters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1zhgsnyZWw

Shows 9,500ohm on secondary

calioak510 · Mar 30, 2014

i ended up buying a coil pack from the parts store and it started up and runs but its not running right, i finally got a check engine light after driving it around and it now says p0172 and p0175 which is system running too rich for bank 1 and bank 2. ive never had a running rich problem before this. the truck ran great before the other day when i went to start it and it wouldnt start. with the new coil the truck runs now but if im running rich maybe it isnt sparking enough? it just seems weird when i didnt have that problem before i guess i will be testing this coil as well

calioak510 · Mar 30, 2014

the old coil pack measured the same .8 on all tabs in the primary test, for the secondary test it was 12.6 for each set.

the new coil pack measured the same .8 on all tabs in the primary test, for the secondary test it was 11.6 for each set.

the old coil pack will not start the car. the new one will start the car but runs rough and now throwing codes p0172 and p0175.

what do you think of the coil packs described? are they both too high for the secondary tests? in your previous post you said it should be 6500-11500 and they are all 11600 on my new coil

RonD · Mar 30, 2014

The current "Rich Bank1 and Bank2" could be why the old coil couldn't start the engine, it will probably be OK to use once you track down the reason for the rich mix.

MAF sensor is the main source of data for the computer to set air/fuel mix.
I would clean yours.

On the fuel rail is the Fuel Pressure Regulator(FPR), it will have a vacuum line attached, remove this vacuum line and check it for fuel or fuel smell, if found replace FPR, it is leaking fuel into the intake via the vacuum hose.

Engine computers have a "clear flooded engine routine".
Key on
Press gas pedal to the floor and hold it there.
Turn key to START(crank engine)

Engine should not fire at all, with above sequence the fuel injectors are shut off, engine will still have spark but no fuel.

If engine is firing intermittently then you could have a leaking injector.

calioak510 · Mar 30, 2014

i never had a code for rich bank 1 and 2 before i put this new coil pack on. when it stopped running before, i got the code which said it was the coil pack. if it was the rich bank 1 and 2 before then why would it say coil pack at that time. and now that i got a new coil pack it is saying rich bank 1 and 2? based on the readings i gave from the coil pack do you think it is good or bad? honestly i dont trust it so i am going to turn it in for a new one. you said it should be between 6500-11500 and mine was 11600 between all plugs. i dont know if that makes a difference or not but its outside of the range you gave me that it should be in , too me that says something is wrong with it. if its not the case please explain ... i will take a look at the MAF and FPR as well but i already have the coil off bc i was planning on returning it bc i did the tests on it and its not where it should be according to your info.

1997 cranks but no start

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