Rebuild VS Bigger Engine

RangerNielsen · Mar 13, 2014

Alright, hell struck. The engine in my '94 blew the head gaskets.

How hard would it be to pull the engine with the transmission (manual) and tcase (also manual) out with it? I have pulled the trans/transfer case in my '88 before, so I know what needs to be done for that. Hopefully I remember to disconnect the 4x4 wires too along with not stripping the shifter bolt. also, could the "entire" exhaust come out too with the engine and transmission and tcase? It is only 1 cat, a pipe and a muffler.

How hard would it be to swap in a 4.0 or maybe a 5.0 in place of my 3.0? I am not a fabricator nor have easy access to one. How hard would the wiring be on either of those? Would my transmission bolt to the 4.0? I plan on getting a close ratio zf5 for the 302 if I go that route.

What parts are included with a rebuild on a 3.0? I know I need valve cover gaskets, head gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, oil pan gasket, piston caps, piston rings, head bolts/studs. I know I am missing ALOT of parts. I plan on replacing everything that is not the block or head housings. I'm also going to get new belt drive parts and everything aside from a fan clutch and fan. I also know about having it set to TDC while I put it all back together.

What machine work should be done?

What other secrets should I know before I dig myself a 25 foot grave?

I will also be getting a clutch kit, flywheel, slave, probably clutch line, maybe a master while the engine is out and full new exhaust will be added to the list.

Overall, is it worth it to obtain a bigger engine and rebuild it than to simply rebuild my 3.0?

adsm08 · Mar 13, 2014

If you want to try taking the engine, trans, transfer case, and the whole exhaust, manifold to tailpipe out as one unit you might as well just take the cab off.

If you go the 4.0 or 5.0 route you will need a new trans. The 4.0 will be less wire work, and is comparable to the 5.0 in power in the driving band. Fits better too.

If you want to do a proper rebuild I would tear the engine down, carefully and in a clean space, take the heads, bare block, and crank down to a good machine shop. Get the heads checked and decked and a valve job, get the block trued up, some new cam bearings installed, and measured, then have the crank polished and measured, and the whole bunch tanked and cleaned. Then you need to get the appropriate sized bearing and ring kits and a master gasket kit. Mark the pistons as to position and orientation, clean them up well, and get it all back together.

FWIW, any more it is frequently around the same cost to buy a reman long-block as it is to do a proper rebuild.

RangerNielsen · Mar 13, 2014

It's not a full exhaust, its a ghetto rigged exhaust that ends right around the transfer case. I'm rebuilding what ever engine goes in be it the 3.0 or sounds like a 4.0 is possible. Is it possible to get a manual transfer case for a 4.0's m5od? I'm building a shed exclusively for this rebuild

and rebuilds to come.

stmitch · Mar 15, 2014

Any swap will require you to change everything that touches the engine, so trans, engine wiring harness, PCM, exhaust, etc. it's usually much cheaper and easier if you can get a donor vehicle to pull all of the parts from, instead of trying to track down the parts individually.

For the 3.0 rebuild, most kits will include all new gaskets, piston rings, and bearings. Some also include pistons. New head bolts are going to have to be purchased from the dealer, or you can do ARP head studs from Tom Morana.
I bought my kit with gaskets, rings and bearings for around $300, which is close to the price of a complete used 3.0 around me.

ADSM gave some great advise about the machine work. The only thing I might add, is to look into replacing the freeze plugs.

If you want some tear down/rebuild pics of the 3.0, I've got some starting on page 10 of my build thread: http://therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102433&page=10

RangerNielsen · Mar 16, 2014

Yeah I want a donor truck for that reason. No matter what I end up with, an engine with 0 miles will be going into my truck. Your ranger looks fantastic too stmitch.

RangerNielsen · Mar 17, 2014

What brand parts should I get or stay away from? What engine components material should I get or avoid? ie, aluminum alloy pistons or other? Again, this is my first rebuild so I apologize if I sound redundant.

stmitch · Mar 18, 2014

First of all, thanks for the compliment!

Second, it's unlikely that you'd need new pistons. I'd wait to buy the rebuild kit until you pull the engine and can look at the condition of the parts. Then, you can replace them as needed. You'll need new rings, bearings, and gaskets minimum. Other parts may be needed, but you won't know until you open the engine up.

The ring and bearing sizes will depend on the condition of the engine, and any work you have done. For example, if the cylinder bores are no longer true and need to be bored out, you'll need larger than stock piston rings. If the crank journals are worn, you'll need thicker than stock crank bearings to make up the difference. If you don't already have a Haynes manual, get one. It will list all of the tolerances for engine internals like that, and tell you what is/is not acceptable.

RangerNielsen · Mar 18, 2014

With my luck with this truck, I am doing a COMPLETE new rebuild, inside and out. Except A/C condenser, we don't need A/C where I'm at. I don't want to go though all this work of rebuilding the necessary parts, then have a piston melt on me a week later, so all new parts except the head case (I guess you could call it), and the block itself.

I do have a Haynes manual, they're always one of the first things I buy when I buy a used vehicle.

adsm08 · Mar 18, 2014

Pistons are hard-parts, not really subject to wear or damage unless something else is wrong. Melting a piston is the result of extremely high combustion temps rather than years or miles on the piston itself.

About 95% of the melted pistons I have ever seen were on diesels, almost always on a cylinder that had an injector hang open. Those ones don't slag the piston, but burn a small hole in the middle.

The other 5% were on engines that had been built and boosted and never had the injectors upgraded to keep up with full-boost.

RangerNielsen · Mar 18, 2014

adsm08 said:
Pistons are hard-parts, not really subject to wear or damage unless something else is wrong. Melting a piston is the result of extremely high combustion temps rather than years or miles on the piston itself.

True, however, I want to have all new parts inside the engine so I am certain that I will not be having an issue, as long as everything is done right. Melting a piston is the first thing that came to mind when I wrote that. I'm not THAT experienced with how engines work and what all the components do within each other, yet. I've been learning as I go, using a repair manual to the forums to mechanics I know, my brother being one of them, not a very good help though.

Even if I were to pull a 3.0 out from a junkyard, I would still rebuild it.

RangerNielsen · Mar 22, 2014

I should be getting around to pulling the engine here in the next couple weeks*...

Weeks by my definition may be around june... I still need to build a garage to do this project and projects to come in...

RangerNielsen · Apr 10, 2014

So I have a different idea that I may regret. Could I just do gaskets and probably piston rings? If I go that route, what else would be wise to replace while the engine is torn down that much? I wouldn't be pulling the engine if I went this route. Or I should so I can replace the clutch and such as I would originally? Pulling the engine itself is not an issue, I have all the tools and such to pull the engine, but I'd rather not if I don't have to.

If you guys have seen my other posts, in your opinion, should I just pull the whole engine and transmission and transfer case (be it one unit or separating them)? I was going to take the trans and t case to a shop and see if they need work. They're both manuals though. 178k miles.

stmitch · Apr 11, 2014

To replace piston rings, you have to remove the pistons. That's roughly 200000000 times easier if you pull the whole engine out, rather than taking both the top half and bottom half of the engine off while it's sitting in the truck. If you're taking the trouble to pull it out of the truck, and tear it all down, then replacing the rings/bearings/gaskets is basically a must in my opinion. If you find other broken parts while it's apart, then those will have to be replaced obviously.

I don't know what your budget is, but a running used 3.0 from a Taurus goes for $300-$500 plus core around me. Less on Craigslist. It could be dropped in and running in less time, and with less work than pulling the current engine and rebuilding it.

If you want a basically new engine, then the full rebuild that you originally wanted is the way to go. But be prepared to spend $300-$800 (I'm considering a basic rebuild kit, new head bolts, some machine work, and a valve job here) to make it happen. Maybe more depending on the condition when you open it up, and the machine work required. It's also going to take some time to pull it, tear it down, figure out what needs to be replaced and what can be reused, order replacement parts/appropriate rebuild kit, find a machine shop and wait on them to do what they do, reassemble and reinstall into the truck. I'd say you're looking at a month long project minimum. If things go smoothly it may happen faster, but I wouldn't count on it.

If you want it done faster and with less work, then you can pick up a used 3.0, swap a couple parts (depending on the donor) and have it rolling down the street for that same $300-$800 in about a weekend. But you don't quite have the peace of mind like you would with a freshly rebuilt engine.

RangerNielsen · Apr 11, 2014

The only re used parts I use if I do a complete rebuild is the block casting and the heads. I'm not sure if I would do the valve springs and such as those can be done by removing the valve covers. The available budget I had for it is rapidly disappearing on it. I would also rather just do a complete rebuild for the peace of mind, as well as the experience. I know I am doing it the most expensive way possible, but it would be a brand new engine therefore it would last me another 200+ miles, routine maintenance preformed. I would get a used 3.0 in the event that my current one is FUBAR'D. I imagine it being not that challenging, then I remember that is a push rod engine instead of a overhead cam (which I have experience in rebuilding, for "helping" my brother rebuild his Toyota engines. Depends on how my near future is looking like. I have a lot going on costing me all my available funds...

And the complete rebuild would ensure that I won't have engine problems shortly after getting it put back together.

stmitch · Apr 12, 2014

There is definitely nothing wrong with the full rebuild approach. Just understand that it will take more work, time and money than going with a used engine.

Rebuild VS Bigger Engine

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