probable cause for the clutch to freeze up

need info · Jun 3, 2018

I received some good help yesterday on what I have to do to repair my hydraulic line/clutch master cylinder assembly and how the clutch system works and possible cause. thanks again. Along with a u tube video I have a good Idea how to go about replacing the clutch hydraulics. I have a good explanation from yesterday, but I am asking for additional comments please. My questions, for today is what would be some good reasons for my clutch to freeze up rock hard. The hydraulic line popped out of the transmission spilling fluid out to the pavement, when I pressed the clutch hard and heavy while it was frozen. The truck was sitting for 5 weeks and the last time the truck was used the clutch was working like new. Would a clutch freeze up like sometimes brakes do when a vehicle sits? If so is there a way I can free up the clutch without removing the transmission. I do not want to put a new master cylinder assembly on without freeing up the clutch first. Any advice. Just for the record, I am thinking about having my ranger towed to a shop for a company to repair, if the transmission has to be dropped. thanks.

tomw · Jun 3, 2018

If you had a lot of rain, for example. the mechanical moving parts of the pressure plate could have rusted in place. You have several different actions you could take.
You could try to operate the slave cylinder using a different hydraulic cylinder from the original master. You could attempt to re-connect the master line to the slave fitting. After that, bleed the system, and then try to 'dance' on the clutch pedal rather than pushing as hard as you can in one go. You may be able to get the pressure plate to free up by applying intermittent pressure. Or not.
If you fail, you have not lost a lot, nor invested a lot.
The alternative beyond that is to either start the engine in 2nd gear, for example, and drive slowly via back roads to the garage of choice, given you do not want to muddle around removing the transmission(necessary to gain access to the clutch gizzards). Or to have it towed to the shop, or remove the transmission yourself.
Watch a youtube to see how difficult replacing the clutch is to learn if it is within your skillset. Be pepared to pay a good penny to have someone else do the work. My mental hour-figure is about 4 hours. So, 4 times the hourly rate in labor, plus parts. Perhaps it is time to have the flywheel surface machined, which would be additional cost.
tom

need info · Jun 3, 2018

tomw said:
If you had a lot of rain, for example. the mechanical moving parts of the pressure plate could have rusted in place. You have several different actions you could take.
You could try to operate the slave cylinder using a different hydraulic cylinder from the original master. You could attempt to re-connect the master line to the slave fitting. After that, bleed the system, and then try to 'dance' on the clutch pedal rather than pushing as hard as you can in one go. You may be able to get the pressure plate to free up by applying intermittent pressure. Or not.
If you fail, you have not lost a lot, nor invested a lot.
The alternative beyond that is to either start the engine in 2nd gear, for example, and drive slowly via back roads to the garage of choice, given you do not want to muddle around removing the transmission(necessary to gain access to the clutch gizzards). Or to have it towed to the shop, or remove the transmission yourself.
Watch a youtube to see how difficult replacing the clutch is to learn if it is within your skillset. Be pepared to pay a good penny to have someone else do the work. My mental hour-figure is about 4 hours. So, 4 times the hourly rate in labor, plus parts. Perhaps it is time to have the flywheel surface machined, which would be additional cost.
tom

Makes sense to me. I was wondering if bleeding the system from the bleeder above the hydraulic connection on the transmission is enough to get a little clutch going? On utube it says to remove the entire hydraulic assembly and hang and prime it up. I dont want to do that yet. By the way it did rain allot and the truck sat, so you may of hit the nail on the head with this. thanks. Frank

Denisefwd93 · Jun 3, 2018

The connectors of the line and slave cylinder are self-sealing, the clutch pedal would be rock hard if it's not connected properly,. Pressing hard enough would probably make the line break because it's made of plastic. If the slave cylinder is locked up you know what it means.

There is an inspection port on the lower left of the transmission but I don't know if it's enough for you to get in there with a bar and see if the slave cylinder moves,

I still hurt from the job we did on my truck 2 months ago LOL

need info · Jun 3, 2018

tomw said:
If you had a lot of rain, for example. the mechanical moving parts of the pressure plate could have rusted in place. You have several different actions you could take.
You could try to operate the slave cylinder using a different hydraulic cylinder from the original master. You could attempt to re-connect the master line to the slave fitting. After that, bleed the system, and then try to 'dance' on the clutch pedal rather than pushing as hard as you can in one go. You may be able to get the pressure plate to free up by applying intermittent pressure. Or not.
If you fail, you have not lost a lot, nor invested a lot.
The alternative beyond that is to either start the engine in 2nd gear, for example, and drive slowly via back roads to the garage of choice, given you do not want to muddle around removing the transmission(necessary to gain access to the clutch gizzards). Or to have it towed to the shop, or remove the transmission yourself.
Watch a youtube to see how difficult replacing the clutch is to learn if it is within your skillset. Be pepared to pay a good penny to have someone else do the work. My mental hour-figure is about 4 hours. So, 4 times the hourly rate in labor, plus parts. Perhaps it is time to have the flywheel surface machined, which would be additional cost.
tom

TomW, I am in some kind of luck. I did what you said and I heard the clutch crack open by trying to start it in 2nd gear. I then bled it through the breather vent on the transmission about 5 times and have a bit of a peddle. I can idle it in 2nd gear but can not shift yet. So I have it on its way. Once I keep bleeding it with another person to help. I think I could get it in driving order and then I will inspect the connection where it popped open at the transmission which I will always worry about until I get it approved. I know now that I will not have to pay someone to drop the transmission for now. I am wondering about the part the line pops into at the transmission. I wonder if that is worn or just the connection on the line. I seen a little bit of corrosion on the line connector where the lock pin sits. just enough for it to pop under extreme pressure. Its not like I stood up on the peddle, but gave it about 40 to 60 lbs pressure when it was frozen up. I didnt even think about it, I just gave it a good press. thanks very much.

Denisefwd93 · Jun 3, 2018

Pedal pressure translates to hundreds and hundreds of pounds of pressure in Hydraulics.

Reading your narrative has me thinking the line connector is the problem, when we did the one on my truck it was brand new, and I could not push it in! my friend Hank had to push it in, it took so much pressure.

need info · Jun 3, 2018

Denisefwd93 said:
Pedal pressure translates to hundreds and hundreds of pounds of pressure in Hydraulics.

Reading your narrative has me thinking the line connector is the problem, when we did the one on my truck it was brand new, and I could not push it in! my friend Hank had to push it in, it took so much pressure.

i see what you mean about hydraulic pressure. at any rate my assessment on this is the design of the quick connect is made to hold under normal clutch moving conditions. The hydraulic pressure moves the clutch open and then gets bottomed out. Being that the clutch was seized at the time all that hydraulic pressure that your talking about blew out the quick connect. The weakest link as to say. I say all this because everything is back together and the clutch is free, thanks to Tom's posted above- with his advice to me. I bled the clutch for 2 hours and just got back from a test drive with no leaks at the quick connect. So not that I know that much about all this, but nevertheless, its been a learning experience, thanks to all of you and hands on with it. I wouldn't be surprised if that quick connect leaks in the future. Maybe not! Thanks again!

tomw · Jun 4, 2018

As a side note, when my Ranger was new, within a few months, it sat in front of the house for a week, and we had a lot of rain. I went to go to work and could not put the transmission in gear. Push the pedal, engine at idle, and it was blocked, hard to move, and I was afraid of messing up the linkage if I pushed any harder. I figured the clutch was toast.
I decided to try putting it in gear, and then starting the engine. I did so. Bang, the engine started(had to press the clutch pedal to enable the starter), and things freed up.
I figured that I had the one clutch that liked to rust together if left on its own for a bit in rainy weather. It has happened a couple or three times in the last 30 years or so, and I just accept that is the way it is. I have a new clutch on the shelf as the pedal is coming pretty far up before it engages, so I will finally see what I missed all this time.
tom

Denisefwd93 · Jun 4, 2018

Tom I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm just saying there is no linkage it's all hydraulic so I'm at a loss to understand what could lock up after a rainy spell and setting 4 weeks months or years.

tomw · Jun 6, 2018

I make the assumption, given the symptom, that the clutch friction material was engaged with the bare Fe of the flywheel, or PP, and kept the input shaft spinning when at idle. The rpms and the 'sticky' made it difficult to engage 1st or any other gear.
At the time, I had no idea what it was, but was able to start the engine in gear, clutch pedal depressed, and it let loose with a slight 'bang'. I was then able to use the clutch as normal.
Only 'splain I could come up with was the above, which seemed to fit the situation.
tom

need info · Jun 9, 2018

tomw said:
I make the assumption, given the symptom, that the clutch friction material was engaged with the bare Fe of the flywheel, or PP, and kept the input shaft spinning when at idle. The rpms and the 'sticky' made it difficult to engage 1st or any other gear.
At the time, I had no idea what it was, but was able to start the engine in gear, clutch pedal depressed, and it let loose with a slight 'bang'. I was then able to use the clutch as normal.
Only 'splain I could come up with was the above, which seemed to fit the situation.
tom

I understand completely now since I went through everything. At first I though I had linkage too. Who knew about a hydraulic clutch! many years ago, the vehicles all had linkage. My 49 chevy, my 64 chevy, my 61 studabaker, my 68 belvedere. Your calculations for my problem was right on the money. It didnt take me long to assume hydraulics, I just never seen it before. Keep in mind I been driving automatics for the last few decades. Well any way, I bled the clutch through the slave cylinder about 30 times and I have a normal peddle as usual. I didnt have to mess with the master and the line going into the transmission because of the check valve on the line. Now I only have to be concerned on that line going in is not ever going to pop again. It had a little of corrosion on the area that the snap ring fits into. Just enough for it to pop when the clutch was stuck engaged from the rain when I pressed hard on the peddle. I am thinking about having a guy put a rebuilt engine block in and at that time I would go with everything new in the clutch department. Any suggestions with the engine? Thanks again for the good information that helped me fix my problem. Especially the advice on starting the truck in gear, that popped the clutch free.

Denisefwd93 · Jun 9, 2018

If you replace the engine, replace flywheel, pilot bearing, clutch master cylinder line and slave cylinder with a new pre bled unit. Leave nothing to chance.

need info · Jun 19, 2018

Denisefwd93 said:
If you replace the engine, replace flywheel, pilot bearing, clutch master cylinder line and slave cylinder with a new pre bled unit. Leave nothing to chance.

thanks for the great advice. an update on this situation is that after 50 miles of use the hydraulic line quick connect popped out of the slave cylinder agian last night. I had to get a tow from AAA. Now I am thinking if I could only put a new master cylinder on and leave the slave cylinder and if this is going to be secure? I am not familiar with the what the connection looks like inside the slave. I am going to post a new thread asking for advice at this point. thanks again.

probable cause for the clutch to freeze up

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