2.5L ignition timing, torque pro

cobra93 · Apr 26, 2015

I have a 2000 ranger 2.5L 5 speed.
I recently bought an obd 2 bluetooth reader and installed torque pro on my phone.
I've been looking at different things and ran across the ignition advance gauge.
If anyone can check their readings to confirm mine I'd appreciate it.

At idle I have 8-10 * of advance, when under cruise I show ~25* of advance.
At full throttle I drop back to 8-10* of advance, regardless of rpm.

This makes no sense to me, in fact it seems backwards.
I should have full advance ( 32* or so ) somewhere around 3,000-3,500 rpm, but only show 8-10*.

The engine seems to be done accelerating by 3,500 rpm.
I was surprised by this since I don't have a tach in my dash and thought I was reving much higher than this.
It sounds like I should be hitting the rev limiter at this point.

I also have some odd fuel pressure readings, anywhere from 68-81 psi.
This doesn't update often, I assume it's not displaying correctly.

Thanks to anyone that can help.

Mark_88 · Apr 26, 2015

I can't really help you with the higher specs on the 2.5 because I haven't played with that yet...but my 88 2.3 would idle around the 8-10* only with the vacuum line removed...if that makes sense. Once I attached the vacuum line to the stator (ok, it wasn't fuel injected) it would hit 25-30* on a timing light.

What you are seeing is probably more accurate for the 2.5 with FI and a direct reading from the PCU or whatever the computer name you want...but I'm interested in seeing more on this because my truck now has a 96 2.3 FI system with a 98 2.5 engine...

I saw the OBD-II connector under the dash and can't wait to plug into that too...and torque pro sounds like an app I'd like to have...how much was it and where did you find it?

cobra93 · Apr 27, 2015

Thanks for the response Mark.
I bought an $8.00 elm327 off amazon, but it wasn't able to communicate with the truck.
I did more searching and bought another from BAXF for about $23.00, this works okay.

Torque and torque pro are from google play store, torque is the free app.

torque can read allot more than this truck can take advantage of, look at some videos.

This morning the truck seemed to accelerate better than normal, it does this on occasion. I was running late so I didn't fire up torque.
I did after work and found the ignition advance working the way it should for about 2 minutes, then the backwards timing again.
This happened again after sitting at my moms for 3 hours after work.

This is about the time a heated o2 sensor takes to get hot enough for the computer to go into closed loop mode. I assume this is a big flag as to the reason for my problem, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Also, I have a code p0171 occurring ( lean bank 1 ), i replaced both o2 sensors 2 years ago. I haven't had the time to figure this on out yet, but don't think they are related.
My timing belt snapped on me a week ago yesterday, so I know my cam is timed correctly.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Mark_88 · Apr 27, 2015

Thanks for the info...I will check it out once I decide what way I'm going to go...I can either find an automatic transmission and maybe some 410 gears or look for a 4.0...which makes more sense since the automatics tend to go out much more often than the 5 spd.

I've been dealing with carbs and whatnot pretty much since I've owned my Ranger so I'm kinda new to this...but from what I gather, the timing is completely reliant on the Crank Position Sensor (CKP or something like that) and if your timing is wandering it probably has something to do with that...

It could also be a reaction to the reading from the 02 sensor and the PCU is trying to adjust it to compensate...

I know these engines use the CKP sensor since I just had a good look at mine yesterday to try to recognize where everything is...

Others on here know this better than I do so I'm sure one of them will pipe up sooner or later...meantime...RonD posted a test for the CKP recently so it you look for his posts it might be had readily...or if you have another one kicking around it might be worth a shot at changing it out...

However...I'm not suggesting starting the mad rush of parts swapping without getting input from someone else...just in case!

cobra93 · Apr 27, 2015

Thanks mark, I'll look for his post tomorrow.

I'm not a parts swapper anymore, haven't been for years.
I've learned from reading the probst book on fuel injection, very good book by the way, that a code doesn't mean the "part" is bad, you have to check it, then check the connection for issues, or reason the code appears.

I'll look for a solution to the p0171 code first and go from there.

I have a 1993 cobra to get rid of and a parking pad to get done.
I'm looking to get a 2013 sho this year.
This is how I found out about torque app on eco boost performance forums.

I hate to buy cars I may not be able to fix myself, but also tired of driving slugs.
I wouldn't mind doing a 5.0 swap on this ranger, but finding the time is a problem.

The gas mileage on this ranger is the same as my dads 88 notch back 5.0 mustang, pretty sad when you think about the performance difference.

thanks again, I'll research more and post back when I have any new information.

Mark_88 · Apr 27, 2015

OK, I decided I wanted to find the post to make sure it was what I thought it was...and...it was!

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160562&highlight=Crank+position+sensor

The 12th post down will answer the quick test problem...but an earlier post also goes into a bit more detail of how it works.

Hope that helps...the physical timing seems to be ok as it does run properly at times...when it shifts out of that pattern the performance degrade is obvious so I'd suspect something to do with the ckp...but the ICM plays a role in there also so you may need to do a bit of probing and possible part swap once you narrow it down...

Anyway...I can follow this once you figure something out...

I've thought about the 5.0 swap too...and after I just finished swapping in a 96 dash to my 88 cab so I can match the wiring for the fuel injection...that would be a bit upsetting...I actually liked the Gen I dash but was frustrated with them not having side window defrost...and having cold or miserable weather 6 months of the year it was getting to be a bit too much for me...

Ah, well, it's not like my old Tempo that had all those features...and lasted 400,000 km...

cobra93 · Apr 28, 2015

Thanks Mark, I'll check it out.
I'll try to find some trouble shooting time this sunday.

scott01ranger · May 1, 2015

My 2001 2.5/5 speed Ranger makes power up to 5000 RPM ( I have a factory tach), but I do have a Dynomax catback, and an intake. Mine's always made more power right after fireup, while still in open loop.

cobra93 · May 2, 2015

I wonder if your truck pulls the timing as well.
It's a noticeable difference to me, seat of the pants anyway.

My dad and I were at milan dragway a few years ago with his "stock"" 88 50 notchback.
The car runs 13.25-13.35 consistently.
I watched him make a pass, 15.60 or something.
When we got back to our spot I asked what happened, missed shift, he said no.
Well he adjusted the timing before that run and forgot to replace the spout, lol, it rode down the track on top of the radiator.

So 14* base timing with no advance is huge.
Hopefully I can check a few things tomorrow.

cobra93 · May 26, 2015

This is a little off topic and sorry for taking so long to find any new information.

I've recently had a p0171 code pop up.
I can clear it and it's back within 10 minutes, whether the engine idles rough/surges or not.
I also have had p0442 ( I believe ), evap code, I didn't really care about finding it.

I haven't been able to do any checking on my crank sensor in regards to the ignition timing issue, however the more I read about it the more it seems to either work or it doesn't, but I will pursue this when I have some time.

So on to my question regarding the 2 codes above.
I've shot brake clean and carb cleaner all over the place with no change in idle.
Today I went out and started the truck, went under the hood and proceeded to wiggle any vacuum line I could see.
When I got to the drivers side of the truck I found a bad vacuum line.
The line looks to come from the underside of the upper intake (metal tube) then to some type of a switch located on the wheel well between the battery and the master cylinder.
The switch has a much larger line that travels down the frame on the drivers side.
The switch has these 2 hoses and an electrical connector on it along with a cap and I assume a sponge under it to vent to atmosphere.
I don't know what this is, but I wonder if it is the cause of both codes.

I'll clear the codes again and see if either code shows back up.

Does anyone know what the switch I'm referring to is?

I can post a pic tomorrow if necessary.

Thanks.

Mark_88 · May 26, 2015

Hey, I was wondering where you went or if you found answers...your codes can be found on this section under the Tech Articles...

http://www.therangerstation.com/tech_library/OBD-II_codes.shtml

The first one is probably part of your problem and maybe tied to the second as far as performance detriment. P0171 is lean condition on bank 1...

P0171 System too Lean (Bank 1)

The second one was for the evap system and that sounds like what you found with a bad vacuum.

P0442 Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected (small leak)

Lean conditions can be a major problem if left too long...as you probably appreciate...and I found some reading material that I couldn't find on TRS...for some reason...

http://www.obd-codes.com/p0171

Could be the vac leak causing too much air in the system...more common on carbs as far as really killing an engine...but if big enough the vac leak could cause your symptoms for sure...could be other things so maybe go over the list in the article just in case...

cobra93 · May 26, 2015

Thanks Mark.
I think this could be the cause of both codes as the hose appears to be a big leak into the intake after the throttle body.

The hose tht was leaking/half broken is directly above the pvc hose.
I'll take some pics and post them on thurs.

My time is very limited due to my moms health conditions, not life threatening, but mobility problems and very time consuming. So I find the time when I can.
I try not to leave people that are trying to help, hanging, that's just wrong in my mind.
I may be slow due to this, but I very much appreciate your help.

The 0442 code (popular) fix was to replace the gas cap and if it still appears take it to someone with a smoke machine to find the leak, I never did either as I'm a cheap bastard, LOL.

Mark_88 · May 26, 2015

No problem, I know what health conditions can do to a schedule and things we take for granted. Take your time...I've been around long enough to see answers coming six months or longer...but always good to resolve things quickly when possible.

The gas cap was one of the things that I never suspected as being a problem...but fuel injected systems with too many sensors can be set off by the slightest things...as I learned when I borrowed a friends Pontiac Montana...the gas cap can throw codes on those things that are misleading...even just removing the cap and putting it back on can correct an otherwise scary code (Catalytic failure was one I saw on a Toyota)...

Anyway...hope that helped and gets you out of that error code!

cobra93 · May 27, 2015

Yesterday I cut the break out of the hose, it's a little short, but It's not pulling off.
Today after work I got some new 3/8" fuel hose to replace the bad hose. I'll replace it tomorrow and get some pics of the switch it connects to.

So far I have ~50 miles on it with no code shown.
The p0171 shows up pretty quick, but the p0442 takes a while before the CEL comes on.

So far so good.

Thanks again for the help Mark, I'll update if anything else happens or if I figure anything else out.

cobra93 · May 28, 2015

So far I still have no codes displayed.
This is the "switch" I was referring to, but don't know what it is.
Also the metal line coming from the intake manifold.
I also don't know why there's a capped fitting , like an AC fill connector on the right side of it.

2.5L ignition timing, torque pro

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

New Member

Attachments

Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad

Today's birthdays

Member & Vendor Upgrades

Truck of The Month

Recently Featured

Follow TRS On Instagram

TRS Events

25th Anniversary Sponsors

Check Out The TRS Store

Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad

Sponsored Ad

Amazon Deals