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chevy silverado 4 whizzer....been planning ecoboost...


bobbywalter

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but the 4 cyl that they are to put in the chevy silverado just benched all of my ecoboost development plans.


i have been working on ecoboost issues for about 2 years in my spare time....was warned there was a game changer coming besides the inline 6 diesel that only gm was smart enough to use over the v6 joke put out by the others back when we went to the ranger debut.......


but i did not believe that gm would do the big 4 cyl...





:shok:
 


85_Ranger4x4

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For as underpowered as everyone thinks the 2.3 will be in a Ranger a 2.7 4cyl will be really gutless in a fullsize. ;missingteeth;

I really wish Ford would start releasing stuff on the new Ranger, #'s would be great for starters.
 

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I am fully expecting this to be a typical GM idea like the Colorado, or side post batteries. It looks OK on the drawing board and fails miserably in real life application.
 

rusty ol ranger

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It doesnt matter if it makes 400hp and 600ftlb of torque.

No one is going to buy a 4banger in a fullsize.
 

bobbywalter

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The reason I dislike 4 cyl is inherent imbalance.

2.7 l inline turbo 6 seems a no brainer in a fullsize.


Initially, i did think they were bullshitting us because who would buy one? But having owned and driven several makes and models of the current 4 cyl turbos out there i will wait for the real world results before judgement.

Ballsy move. Hopefully its not a sidepost thing and more like the ls thing.
 

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I guess it has some fancy torque converter thing and stuff in the transmission to cancel out the imbalance.

350 lb of torque from 1,500 rpm in a supposedly wide flat curve with an 8-speed automatic.

Got to be honest, it sounds impressive... and expensive.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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4 cyls are nothing new, might have balance shafts or something too.
 

bobbywalter

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Edge was balanced.....still buzzed like a bumble bee when it got broken in.

Mustang was two drunken bumble bees fighting in a beer can...but had some sack....

Same with the fusions. Neighbors explorer is too new to tell. I suspect it will be charming in the ranger and bronco as long as they tie the cyl in the block so we are not poppin gaskets after we crank them up.

In a truck or jeep likely a non issue.
 

91stranger

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Sounds like a bad idea. Full size trucks are just too big and too heavy. Might as well put a weed eater motor on a riding mower and see how it does. I think it will be like comparing 2 strokes to 4 strokes. both can have similar hp but waayyy different power to wheels. I'd like to see this full size 4cyl truck tow a 15,000 pound trailer on a hilly road. Sounds like a big craze that everyone will want because its new. then they find out it sucks and that fancy torque converter will be a $2000 part that is 6 months behind. Way to go GM.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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Edge was balanced.....still buzzed like a bumble bee when it got broken in.

Mustang was two drunken bumble bees fighting in a beer can...but had some sack....

Same with the fusions. Neighbors explorer is too new to tell. I suspect it will be charming in the ranger and bronco as long as they tie the cyl in the block so we are not poppin gaskets after we crank them up.

In a truck or jeep likely a non issue.
Specific to Ecoboosts?

Sounds like a bad idea. Full size trucks are just too big and too heavy. Might as well put a weed eater motor on a riding mower and see how it does. I think it will be like comparing 2 strokes to 4 strokes. both can have similar hp but waayyy different power to wheels. I'd like to see this full size 4cyl truck tow a 15,000 pound trailer on a hilly road. Sounds like a big craze that everyone will want because its new. then they find out it sucks and that fancy torque converter will be a $2000 part that is 6 months behind. Way to go GM.
Tune into the 2.7 Ecoboost F-150. They have been doing it for years with a 2.7 EB V6.
 

bobbywalter

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Sounds like a bad idea. Full size trucks are just too big and too heavy. Might as well put a weed eater motor on a riding mower and see how it does. I think it will be like comparing 2 strokes to 4 strokes. both can have similar hp but waayyy different power to wheels. I'd like to see this full size 4cyl truck tow a 15,000 pound trailer on a hilly road. Sounds like a big craze that everyone will want because its new. then they find out it sucks and that fancy torque converter will be a $2000 part that is 6 months behind. Way to go GM.

the spirit of this point i get...

the big ecoboost ford 1/2 ton has the potential to really cross into heavy territory, and the new big engine 1/2 ton gm will as well.

who the fawk regularly tows 15 k with a 1/2 ton? hell more then 8 k? regardless of that, this little engine will outright bitchslap any of the sub big blocks before the 2000,s ... even though they have done the work to properly cool the turbo which will greatly increase the life span, i dont hold hopes of longevity due the the camshaft scenario they are using for fuel management across their new engine line. time will tell.



besides the fact you dont buy a 1/2 ton to tow 15 k with, most of the guys in that target market wont tow anything over a few bikes, snowmobiles or jet skis if they ever even put a hitch ball on the truck.

towing is not prime, 6-8 k is normal 1/2 ton work.. and like the new ranger i suspect this will be ok to accomplish...

the 3.x ecoboost is ridiculous. i suspect the new gm 6.2 could out compete function though...

thisengine as described...

tq over 320 ft pounds from 1500 to 4 k rpm is what matters. whether its steam, electric or i.c.e. how that level of power is created wont matter...in work done/required is the goal...

of course how it actually feels in execution is a different matter.

compared to a 351 windsor, old school 350 or a 360 mopar....or even a 300 six...built to mimic it...bsfc and emissions would be a galaxy apart.

like i said, i have used and owned some of the little ecoboosts....my only concerns are longevity...they work awesome, but my standard is 250 k miles if i am buying it to keep. (thats 4-6 years for me) all of the gizmos in the new vehicles leaves me uncommitted as the perceived reliability all of these wondrous ancillary things are only good for leasing at this point. drive it a year or two and get a different one.

















Specific to Ecoboosts?



.

yes, i see a better market to repower older jeeps with the 4 whizzers. the transverse engines are ridiculously cheap and i know how to put the m5 behind them reasonably.


where this gm development changes my stance on the ecoboost development, is my goals are not intended for the rbv initially, but will transfer later. i think the gm packaging, open tuning and powertrain interchange will be better.

though with the single engine initial production i can see the eco 4x4 powertrain from the rangers being the most cost effective swap. this is going to be awesome for older ranger trucks. 300 hp and 30 mpg is agret thing in my opinion....
 

85_Ranger4x4

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I wonder what makes the EB 4cyls so rough.

I don't have a ton of automotive 4cyl experience, I had a stock Plymouth Laser RS turbo in high school/college (restickered Mitsubishi Eclipse) and it ran like a sewing machine. My prom date actually asked if it died at a stop light because it idled so smooth (with 130k on a 13yo car)

Most 4cyls I deal with are huge for automotive, old and have no vibration dampening at all. Cast iron crankshaft pulleys, no balance shafts, no rubber engine mounts and I don't really think they vibrate a whole lot. My favorite tractor to use was built in 1953 and has a 226/3.7 engine with 4.5" of stroke, a little rough at idle but at its governed speed it is hard to notice any vibration... with 1950's tech on a nearly 30yo overhaul.
 

bobbywalter

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what i say is buzzy you may not notice.



60000 dollar car with 40 k miles that is visibly buzzy is pathetic.



if she rode tractors as much as you.....maybe it would be impossible for you two to grade the difference between an inline 6 and 4 at a stoplight......


of course these engines are flawless compared to my ranger. your worst tractor is smoother then that thing...
 

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the spirit of this point i get...

the big ecoboost ford 1/2 ton has the potential to really cross into heavy territory, and the new big engine 1/2 ton gm will as well.

who the fawk regularly tows 15 k with a 1/2 ton? hell more then 8 k? regardless of that, this little engine will outright bitchslap any of the sub big blocks before the 2000,s ... even though they have done the work to properly cool the turbo which will greatly increase the life span, i dont hold hopes of longevity due the the camshaft scenario they are using for fuel management across their new engine line. time will tell.



besides the fact you dont buy a 1/2 ton to tow 15 k with, most of the guys in that target market wont tow anything over a few bikes, snowmobiles or jet skis if they ever even put a hitch ball on the truck.

towing is not prime, 6-8 k is normal 1/2 ton work.. and like the new ranger i suspect this will be ok to accomplish...

I work at an RV dealership and about once a week someone is depending on their half ton truck to pull a camper or a 5th wheel that is way too much for a half ton truck. Yeah they might not be towing 15k but they will probably tow 4-8k fairly regularly. I just don't see a 4cyl doing that well. I understand the eco boost are quite capable for a 6cyl. Another thing I'd like to see as well is life expectancy. Can these go 200k miles? most people now-a-days get a new truck every few years when something new comes out.
 

85_Ranger4x4

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what i say is buzzy you may not notice.



60000 dollar car with 40 k miles that is visibly buzzy is pathetic.



if she rode tractors as much as you.....maybe it would be impossible for you two to grade the difference between an inline 6 and 4 at a stoplight......


of course these engines are flawless compared to my ranger. your worst tractor is smoother then that thing...
I might have looser tolerances when it comes to NVH but seriously you could not tell that Laser was idling. It had balance shafts too.

Don't sell your truck too short, my roughest tractor is a 175CI/2.9L 2 cylinder. :icon_twisted:

I work at an RV dealership and about once a week someone is depending on their half ton truck to pull a camper or a 5th wheel that is way too much for a half ton truck. Yeah they might not be towing 15k but they will probably tow 4-8k fairly regularly. I just don't see a 4cyl doing that well. I understand the eco boost are quite capable for a 6cyl. Another thing I'd like to see as well is life expectancy. Can these go 200k miles? most people now-a-days get a new truck every few years when something new comes out.
There a lot of guys that sneak 10 miles or so to the local state park and don't venture much farther than that too.

The 2.7EB is the same displacement as the 2.7 4cyl EB knockoff and has held up really good with similar power levels. IMO probably having fewer bigger beefier parts I would have more faith in the 4cyl than the V6 of similar displacement staying together.
 

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