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Sound insulation


kryptonitecb

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Before I brought over a write up that I did in another forum about sound insulation I wanted to see if anyone has done one here first. I don't want to do a write up and then find out that I'm just repeating the same old story.

And yes I searched but only saw old archived threads.
 


Rowdy Fitzgerald

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Insulation is something I've been thinking about too. I don't know of anybody doing one on it. I'm definitely interested in what you've done!
 

kryptonitecb

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I'll give it a day or two so that people who have more to do than search the web for ranger mods and porn can have a chance to say something.

I decided to put a/c back in the truck, so I figured why not do the stereo too. Then I just decided to go all the way and do insulation. No more details though, I don't wanna put up all the info here just to put it up again in another thread.
 

Rowdy Fitzgerald

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Ha ha ha sounds like a plan!
 

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I dont think Ive seen one here. Post it up.
 

kryptonitecb

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This is a bit late but here is the write up as promised:

A few weeks ago my stereo stopped tuning stations, one of my speakers hasn't worked in months. So I decided it was time to start over. After ordering all my equipment I decided I would also take the time to insulate the cab.

I've been educating myself for the better part of last year and found some good info. I purchased closed 1/8" closed cell foam from the blue store and 1/2" from a fabric store. The 1/8" was ~$30 for a 50' roll. The 1/2" was $15 a yard, so choose which one you want wisely. I am using the 1/2" for the floor only so I only purchased 2 yards. Then I found 54 square feet of mass loaded vinyl on ebay for $50. This shit is heavy, the shipping was $38 freight so if you order online be prepared to eat that shipping costs. However $50 was a steal compared to $300 to $500 I've seen for the same size. And lastly I took the short route and got dynamat from car(ripoff)toys.

Now for the installation I started with a base coat of dynamat. You don't want a solid layer of the stuff. It only requires 25% coverage. The point of dynamat is to absorb high frequencies traveling through the body of your vehicle. If you put a solid layer down all you've done is make the dynamat part of the sheet metal. It will still take care of some of the sound, however as expensive as the stuff is why use more than you need to. I managed to use 30 square feet to take care of the entire cab of my truck and doors. So just put enough on any panel to make it "tonk" not "tink" when you tap it.



Also put some inside the door on the outer door skin


DO NOT put down a solid layer of mat. All you will do is make that very expensive material a layer on top of the sheet metal that will vibrate with the metal. Effectively doing nothing but wasting your money.

Then a layer of closed cell foam goes on. I picked up some from the blue box store that is meant to go underneath hardwood floors. It's only 1/8" thick but the 1/2" stuff I bought was $15 a yard so I used it for the floor in the cab. Make sure to tape this up real good as it is supposed to be the first real layer of your sound proofing. The whole point is to make a barrier that keeps outside air out. Sound travels through air so the more energy it takes for the air to get to you in the cab the quieter it is. I used noshua foil tape, the kind you would use for home duct work. It worked really well and adheres to both the foam and the metal on the door. I took the extra time to clean off the door before I started this whole endeavor and it probably will help make the glue on the tape stick better if you do too. Don't forget to cut around the door vent, speakers, door handles, etc.



Next up comes the fun part. The mass loaded vinyl is the last layer to go on. It is exactly as the name sounds, a 1/8" heavy a$$ vinyl. The point of it is similar to the CCF, stop air from coming in. This stuff is a pain to get on, one door is about 5 square feet and mass loaded vinyl weighs 1 lb per square foot. My first try on the passenger door with the aluminum tape didn't fare very well. On my trip back to the blue store I picked up some duck tape and it worked better but the results still were poor. Either way if you have a friend to help you (I didn't) this part will be easier. Again you just tape up every seam in the door and leave holes for the important stuff.



I also got a set of foam baffles for the speakers. From what the customer reviews I've read these do not make your speakers sound better or produce more bass. In fact a few articles I read said that if you don't put a vent hole in them you could damage your speaker. I purchased them to protect the speaker from dirt and more importantly water. Our window seals aren't that great and if you play like I do off road and put the truck through extra abuse sometimes the extra protection is a good idea. To protect the door speaker I purchased the xtc liners.



How you layer the bafles is up to you. I did one door with the baffle put in first. The second door I decided to put it in last. Either way could work, my only recommendation is to put the baffle in last. It makes it easier to fit the speaker in and taping the CCF/vinyl to the baffle isn't fun.
 

Vexarana

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How well did this work? Was it fairly noticable? Extremely noticable? I know we are talking about personal judgement on the matter since no decibel meters were used, but was it worth the cost? I need to replace the rivets on my doors and also do the rubber trim, was considering doing the whole sound-proofing thing as well. Just wanted an opinion on a well done job with MLV, CCF, and Dynamat laid down as that is the route I would go.
 

shane96ranger

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I wish I could fit those baffles in my F150. My Pioneers are so deep that it's literally got about 1mm between the magnet and the window. If I have the connection on the wrong side, the window will catch it on the way down and unhook my speakers (I did it once).

Nice details though on your write up.
 

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The mat adds density to your sheet metal. putting it down in small chunks only gives small benefits. Covering as much surface as you can reduces vibration in a larger area, therefore giving you a larger benefit.

In fact, the heavier the matting, the better it works. The other huge benefit (without getting into tactile location, etc.) of it on your doors is it will help reduce rear waves from the door speaker from entering the vehicle. It turns your doors into more of an enclosure.
 

backwoods

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Oh, the door foam baffles also help to reduce high frequency rear waves from the driver. And no, you do not need to vent them.
 

kryptonitecb

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The mat adds density to your sheet metal. putting it down in small chunks only gives small benefits. Covering as much surface as you can reduces vibration in a larger area, therefore giving you a larger benefit.

In fact, the heavier the matting, the better it works. The other huge benefit (without getting into tactile location, etc.) of it on your doors is it will help reduce rear waves from the door speaker from entering the vehicle. It turns your doors into more of an enclosure.
Yes and no. The smaller chunks give more coverage while doing the same thing. Adding one big piece only makes the mat "one" with the door negating any benefit from the dynamat. Heavier (aka more mass) mat will change the resonance frequency of the sheet metal to a lower frequency.

The rear waves from the speaker are more on the low end. So it would actually fill out the sound if you could vent the speaker to the cab. Subwoofer enclosures do this for that very reason. In this case though it would be counter productive to add a hole to the door.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic
 

kryptonitecb

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Oh, the door foam baffles also help to reduce high frequency rear waves from the driver. And no, you do not need to vent them.
I vented the enclosures cause I read ALOT of reviews from people that blew out their woofers from to much back pressure. When the baffle is closed off the pressure has no place to go and can tear apart a speaker.

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backwoods

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I vented the enclosures cause I read ALOT of reviews from people that blew out their woofers from to much back pressure. When the baffle is closed off the pressure has no place to go and can tear apart a speaker.

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic
The drivers don't move a significant enough amount to create that kind of back pressure. You could seal a midrange driver along the frame and not have that as a result.

Remember, you aren't pulling any air in, so the volume of air behind the driver stays constant and that is what creates the suspension for the driver. This limits overexcursion of the driver and helps to actually save the driver from tearing itself apart. To increase back pressure would be on the "incursion" of the cone, in this scenario, the back pressure also helps to reduce the movement.

One thing that most often damages a driver is the magnet collecting metal flakes and pulling them into the vc. More often than not, that is what destroys the driver or overheating from overpowering a driver for too long of a period. This scenario happens when people turn the bass way up and expect a 6.5" driver to play like a pair of 15s.

I have never seen a driver destroy itself from too much backpressure.

Yes and no. The smaller chunks give more coverage while doing the same thing. Adding one big piece only makes the mat "one" with the door negating any benefit from the dynamat. Heavier (aka more mass) mat will change the resonance frequency of the sheet metal to a lower frequency.
Yes, it lowers the resonant freq. of the metal. Which, is a good thing. This means the thin sheet metal is much less likely to vibrate and at the very least vibrate audibly.

I'm not sure what other benefit you think there is to dynamat? In every scenario, you will find a bigger improvement with the more mat you add. Your speakers vibrate. The more mass your panels have, the less vibration you will have. The quieter your car will be. The less distortion you will get from your drivers, the clearer the sound. Using pieces reduces the amount of material available to dissipate the energy from the vibration.

The rear waves from the speaker are more on the low end. So it would actually fill out the sound if you could vent the speaker to the cab. Subwoofer enclosures do this for that very reason. In this case though it would be counter productive to add a hole to the door.

?????

Speakers are like the sun. They put out the same sound in a 360 degree environment. Think of the cone of a speaker as an infinite number of little dots, with each dot creating sound and sending it in each direction like light. The problem is, the rear of the speaker is out of phase with the front of the speaker. This creates cancellation when two waves out of phase with each other, run into each other. In this scenario, their is no sound. That is why a speaker not into an enclosure is so much quieter and "muddier" sounding than one in an enclosure.

Also, sound likes to run along a surface, almost like water. Even with a speaker in an enclosure, you can hear sound from behind it. The sound waves actually wrap around a baffle and head backwards. If you do not separate the front of the driver from the rear, than cancellation happens everywhere and your speaker is a lot quieter than it could be. You can test this by standing behind a home speaker. This also explains why a lot of home speakers have one tweeter, one midrange and two woofers. The second woofer is for baffle compensation, to compensate for this cancellation.

If you want to know why a sub enclosure is ported, then google it. Should be easy info to find, and it has nothing at all to do with low end coming out of the back. It has to do with wavelengths, and after working another 12 hour day, I'm too tired to type it all out knowing it is easily accessible.

If you have any questions, ask away. :icon_thumby:
 

kryptonitecb

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You can always do a writeup :p

Sent from the road while ignoring traffic
 

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