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V8 B2 Rough Idle, Sputter, Hesitation, Lean Codes and Totally Gutless Going Uphill...


dSINtia

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Hi guys,

It has been a long while since my V8 conversion was completed (with lots of help from guys on this forum) and over the last week I've had some pretty knarly issues since returning from deployment a month ago.

1) cold start, truck idles fine closed loop but once at temp, see note 2.
2) hot start, truck idles rough, smells rich, "barbally" exhaust note, surging/hunting engine speed.
3) drives rough... Poor shifts, surges at idle, hesitation on acceleration, overall loss of power, infrequent stalling, bucking on deceleration.
4) slightest grade and the thing is gutless... Throttle wide open and its putting along. All symptoms can be induced by going up any hill.

I pulled codes and got a series of emissions related DTCs but I always have those. I got a bank 1 lean code (0171) and a HEGO code for bank one... I did not get 0174 (lean bank 2) or a code for that bank's O2 sensor.

I run only upstream O2 sensors and in an attempt to force the ECU to run closed-loop after coming to temp in hopes of narrowing down the issue, I disconnected both sensors but all the issues persist.

I start assessing the usual suspects... Vacuum leak, TPS, PCV Valve, MAF, DPFE, EGR, etc... Long story short - all of its good. I threw on new O2 sensors as I had them sitting around. Ignition and CPS are good. I pulled the upper intake off to check gaskets and to replace vacuum hoses and everything looked good. Lower intake gaskets are new and certainly aren't leaking so grossly that these issues are resulting.

On to fuel... Replaced regulator and filter and the Fuel Pump and EEC relay click with KOEO. I can hear the HP pump on the frame rail whirring but nothing from the lift pump in the tank. Would the truck run without the lift pump running? I believe both pumps get VDC from the same relay order so if one has it the other should... Barring a cut or grounded power wire.

I'm looking for ideas here guys... Do these symptoms scream tank fuel pump? Should I hear both pumps cycle on with a KOEO on-demand test? Will the truck run on level ground at idle and highway speeds with just the HP pump running?

I'm terribly frustrated at this point and maybe missing something easy... Any thoughts are appreciated.

Dave
 
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dSINtia

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Ok, I lied. The tank pump is cycling on and seems to be running. Unfortunately I don't have my fuel pressure test kit and the one I rented from Autozone is all dorked up so I don't know definitively if I have good pressure at the rail. I haven't been able to test the circuits with a multi-meter to determine loading but they seem to be running.

Oddly though, when I do an on-demand KOEO test I hear a little burple in the tank at the end of its 2-second start-up cycle. Normal?

Now what???
 
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win

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My gut agrees that the symptoms could be fuel pressure related -- but, I'd have expected lean codes for both banks.

Wonder if the burble you're hearing in the tank is simply the FPR's fuel return and you can only hear it when the rest of the truck is silent?

Can you verify with a live data OBD scanner if the issues start just as the PCM trips itself from closed loop to open?

If so, try unplugging the PCM's engine temp sensor, might prevent a toggle to open loop and prove/disprove the toggle is associated with the symptoms.
 

RonD

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Open loop is when the engine is cold and computer is running engine based on Long Term Fuel trims and factory tables for engine size, so no feedback, it is in an Open or no Loop, i.e. MAF, burn,.......no feed back

Closed loop is when O2 sensors warm up enough to work, 650degF, 5 minutes or so, then computer uses oxygen level in exhaust(O2 sensors) to determine best air/fuel mix, so feedback and a Closed Loop, i.e. MAF, burn, O2 compete loop of data

Unplugging most sensors sends computer into Open loop.

Lean code means computer is opening fuel injectors longer than it's calculations should call for.

MAF sensor gives computer the amount of air coming in
From that the computer calculates the amount of fuel based on 14:1 ratio
Computer opens injectors long enough to let in that amount of fuel(based on normal fuel pressure)
Computer looks at O2 sensors to see how burn went
If O2 sensor shows too much oxygen(lean burn) on bank 1, computer opens bank 1 injectors longer.
If still too much oxygen then it opens them longer, ect...........
Once the oxygen level is correct the computer looks at the open time(dwell time, pulse width) if it is far enough away from original calculation then computer sets Lean code.
This notifies drive of a problem.

Rough running is something else all together, if above happens engine runs fine during this time, CEL is just a "heads up" that something is wrong with calculation, MAF, computer or O2 is wrong.

Once engine is up to temp, idle should be 650, or 750 with automatic
Unplug IAC Valve, idle should drop to 500rpms or engine may even stall, either is fine it means no vacuum leak.
If idle stays high then there is a leak, so MAF is wrong.

I agree that low fuel pressure should effect both banks, same with MAF starting to fail.

What year is the ignition system?

When a cylinder mis-fires the oxygen in that cylinder is not used, so it is dumped into the exhaust, the O2 sensor sees it(lean burn) and computer adds more fuel, this cycle continues until Lean code is set, so rough running can cause the lean code.

I would pull the spark plugs on bank 1 and see what they tell you.
 
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dSINtia

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Thanks guys. I got it straight now... Closed versus open loop. Thanks RonD. As for the truck, same issues.

The tank burble may very well be a bit of return spittle... Hadn't considered that. IAC is functioning well... Tach is a bit off (still using the stock V6'er) but when it's running right idle is steady at about 800RPM. Disconnect the IAC and idle drops precipitously low to the stall point. I agree... MAF and air intake are sound.

The story goes... 2000 5.0 from a Mountaineer, 1996 harness being used with some of the later model sensors (IAC, combined MAF-IAT, TPS, CPS) by way of splicing in the newer plugs all married up to a stock 88 B2 fuel system and an early 90's model 4R70 from an F150 (I think). Fuel rail was converted to a return-based system with injectors for a 96 motor.

The ignition is stock from the 2000 donor. I too would expect lean conditions indicated from both banks if it was a Fuel Pressure issue. I'll be yanking plugs later today...

Thanks guys... Any other thoughts, please pass the on.

Dave
 
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RonD

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Loosen the gas cap, maybe you are getting an air lock in the tank after engine runs a bit.

If you have an old timing light put it on a few of the plug wires on bank 1, see if you are getting a steady spark pulses

Failing coil pack starts failing when it gets warmed up.

EGR system doesn't come online until computer gets in closed loop.

True lean condition will ping/knock under load
 

dSINtia

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Thanks for all the input thus far guys...

I ran it with a loose gas cap... No improvement but worth a try. I changed both coil packs as I've been holding onto a set waiting for the time to do a tune up... No improvement.

Pulled the plugs on bank 1 and they look no different than those from bank 2. I re-doubled my efforts searching for vacuum leaks... Nothing. Computer issue??? Definitely engine control and not mechanical...

At a loss at this point... Going to take a break.
 

ick

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How long were you on deployment? Have you tried fresh fuel?
 

dSINtia

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I was deployed for five months but it has been running great for the last month... I run 93 octane and treated it with Sta-bil before I left. I've run through about 15 tanks of gas and put about 4,000 miles on it during the last month... All without any issues.
 

ick

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Ah, i thought it may have happened right after you got back with old fuel still in the tank. Do you have a scan tool that you can look at fuel trims? I agree you're running out of fuel l, especially under load. If I'm not mistaken, bank 2 is the supply side of rail for fuel so a lean bank 1 could mean your pump isn't keeping up to run both sides

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
 

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