New U.S. market Ford Ranger: thoughts?

[wildbill23c]

I'd just settle for a simple compact pickup. Nevermind all the electronic crap. Just want it to go from point A to point B. Don't care about 50 cup holders, satellite navigation, 20 air bags, heated seats, etc. A simple work truck would sure be nice LOL...none are made anymore and the closest models are still $20k+.

With the engines today I'm not sure a V6 would be necessary, but a good reliable 4 cylinder would serve many compact truck people very well...of course offer a 4WD model and a manual transmission. Heck manual locks and manual windows I'd be plenty happy with as well.

 

[stmitch]

I'd just settle for a simple compact pickup. Nevermind all the electronic crap. Just want it to go from point A to point B. Don't care about 50 cup holders, satellite navigation, 20 air bags, heated seats, etc. A simple work truck would sure be nice LOL...none are made anymore and the closest models are still $20k+.

With the engines today I'm not sure a V6 would be necessary, but a good reliable 4 cylinder would serve many compact truck people very well...of course offer a 4WD model and a manual transmission. Heck manual locks and manual windows I'd be plenty happy with as well.

What you want will never be made again. Automakers are in the business to make money, and what you just described wouldn't make them any money. Nobody buys manual trans trucks. Nobody buys anything but power windows and locks. There's no profit margin in a bare bones vehicle. If somebody made the truck you described, they'd sell about 25 of them.

The really good news, is that you're describing most of the Rangers that are already on the road. And 20k will buy you 5 or 10 of them, so you can have one for every day of the week.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

What you want will never be made again. Automakers are in the business to make money, and what you just described wouldn't make them any money. Nobody buys manual trans trucks. Nobody buys anything but power windows and locks. There's no profit margin in a bare bones vehicle. If somebody made the truck you described, they'd sell about 25 of them.

Toyota just designed a new 6 speed for the Taco for 2016 so there must be some money in them. Manuals are also available in 3/4 and 1 ton Ram diesels and the heavier Fords (like F-450/550)

So they are still out there. And if they touch up the T6 they already have a manual trans for it so there is no extra cost to develop one.

Fleets eat up stripper models, they don't make much off of them but it is gravy money as it helps spread the development costs out over many, many more vehicles.

That said Dad has an '04 F-250 with manual windows and door locks. The window cranks are awkward. I am pretty sure the truck was designed for power and they made manual cranks fit rather than the previous other way around.

Heck, they could call it an "upgrade" and charge more for it. A rubber floor in a Ford truck is now like a $100 option.

 

[stmitch]

You're right, some vehicles are available with manual transmissions, but look at the take rate. How many Tacomas are sold with the manual? You pretty much have to order them, because you can't find any on dealer lots, and due to the lack of avialability, you can't really negotiate the price down like you can on so many trucks.

You can get a new Colorado with a manual too, but only with the 4 cylinder engine, and only 2WD. Oh, and it gets the same fuel economy as the much more powerful V6. How many buyers want to shift their own gears that badly?

As for fleet sales, yes they love base models. But, when you order fleet vehicles, they're all automatics now. You don't equip fleet vehicles with a transmission that fewer and fewer drivers can operate. And base model today does not equal what the poster I qouted wants. It will come with a screen in the dash, and traction/stability control, etc as required by law. It will have power windows and locks, tire pressure monitoring systems, half a dozen airbags, and all of the other "nannies" that he doesn't want.

It just seems like so much of this thread is people saying they want the same exact thing that they've had for so long. There's no point in complaining that the new stuff is different from the old stuff. If you don't like what's out there, don't spend your hard earned money on something you don't want. Spend the same money (or much less) and buy the older truck that meets all of your expectations. For $20k (plus interest), I could make about any bare-bones truck I want.

 

[wildbill23c]

What you want will never be made again. Automakers are in the business to make money, and what you just described wouldn't make them any money. Nobody buys manual trans trucks. Nobody buys anything but power windows and locks. There's no profit margin in a bare bones vehicle. If somebody made the truck you described, they'd sell about 25 of them.

The really good news, is that you're describing most of the Rangers that are already on the road. And 20k will buy you 5 or 10 of them, so you can have one for every day of the week.

Pretty sure if they built a truck for the sole purpose of being a work vehicle without a bed full of nannies and electronics they would sell the hell out of them. Many people don't want that shit either, they're forced to because that's all that's made, its not that they want it, that's all they can get.

I think most RBV's really only had ABS, and the newer ones from the late 90's? or early 2000's had somewhat of a traction control system? I know my 88 B2 supposedly had rear antilock brakes which obviously probably don't work since the light has been on since I bought it, probably a sensor that costs way too much money HAHA!!!

I mean those safety features are cool, but should NOT be a substitute for lack of driving skills, and should never be relied on for a foolproof system. I know the ABS system can actually overheat and be temporarily disabled if used heavily...many traction control systems actually use the ABS to work, so now that system is being over-worked in heavily used times.

IDK I just like the older more simple vehicles. Never saw a need or a want for a vehicle full of nannies...which in many cases do nothing but get you stuck as it cuts power so if you are in a bit of snow/ice you can't move at all LOL. At least my newer truck I can turn that shit off whenever I need or want to.

I have a 2008 Toyota Tundra base double cab 5.7L V8 4x4. Its a great truck don't get me wrong, but I swear my 1988 F250 and my 1988 B2 are far more sure footed in ice/snow than the tundra and all its electronic crap...it stops moving in places the F250/B2 run through in 2WD because the damn traction control and stability control are far too intrusive for any practical use without disabling those "features". At least you can turn them off, I've been in some other brand vehicles where you can't turn that stuff off, its not any fun not being able to get out of its own parking space LOL.

I understand what many are saying but in reality that stuff is nothing more than a very expensive crutch for those who are lazy, and have no business being behind the wheel of a vehicle. What on earth did people do before ABS, traction control, stability control, and 20 air bags? They either learned to drive properly or darwin took care of it.

 

[stmitch]

IDK I just like the older more simple vehicles. Never saw a need or a want for a vehicle full of nannies...which in many cases do nothing but get you stuck as it cuts power so if you are in a bit of snow/ice you can't move at all LOL. At least my newer truck I can turn that shit off whenever I need or want to.

And that's my last point. There's nothing wrong with your opinion. There are still plenty of those types of vehicles around. Complaining about how the new stuff doesn't fit your ideal is kind of a waste of time. Getting mad at change (that really doesn't affect you) doesn't do anything but make you sound like a crazy old man. Enjoy the old stuff! There's plenty of it to go around, and it's WAY cheaper than any of the new stuff.

 

[wildbill23c]

And that's my last point. There's nothing wrong with your opinion. There are still plenty of those types of vehicles around. Complaining about how the new stuff doesn't fit your ideal is kind of a waste of time. Getting mad at change (that really doesn't affect you) doesn't do anything but make you sound like a crazy old man. Enjoy the old stuff! There's plenty of it to go around, and it's WAY cheaper than any of the new stuff.

Change that doesn't effect me? Hell yes it does if I want to buy a new vehicle without all that crap in it, I cannot do so because of the lack of customer listening that manufacturers are doing and thanks to the BS rules and regulations by our ass backwards government this stuff will in fact never be made again. You will forever be at the mercy of the multiple computers in your car getting you out of your garage if you are lucky they won't fail at the worst possible time. Many of these things were done to keep people from working on their own vehicles, not that it does any good for the environment or safety...you just can't fix stupid drivers.

That being said, if Ford actually built a new Ranger in a crew cab configuration and a bed that is actually usable, 5' and shorter beds I don't consider to be useful unless all you do is go to the airport and carry your bags in the bed LOL. If they can build something reliable and compact it will in fact sell, may people here in Idaho love the little Ranger, Nissans, Mazdas, etc. because they will go anywhere, and are small enough to be able to do so, yet have the ability to do some descent towing/hauling as well.

What happened was people bought trucks for family sedans rather than to be used as a truck...so now they want an enormous cab area, they could care less about having a usable truck bed...and what do you end up with? An explorer sport trac with a useless bed. So trucks increase in size because people want them to take the place of their family car. The Toyota Tacoma is now the size of what the first gen Tundra was, the Tacoma is no longer a compact pickup like it once was. Everything is migrating towards mid-size and full size. The compact pickup market died because people want a family size truck.

I doubt a new Ranger will be anything like the old ones. They'll be larger, and it won't be a truck base, its going to be a unibody probably front wheel drive platform like the Explorer...basically its going to be another Explorer Sport Trac with a Ranger badge .

I don't care what people buy, its their money, but damn it I should be able to buy a simple work truck without a bunch of bells and whistles I don't want and don't need. And if automakers built them they'd sell the hell out of them.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

You're right, some vehicles are available with manual transmissions, but look at the take rate. How many Tacomas are sold with the manual? You pretty much have to order them, because you can't find any on dealer lots, and due to the lack of avialability, you can't really negotiate the price down like you can on so many trucks.

It must be high enough to justify designing a new transmission. Unless Toyota is really stupid they have to be making money with it. Most dealers like to upsell so they stock fancier crap. If you go by availability my local Ford dealer has more Lariats, King Ranches and Platinum than XL's or XLT's. Easier to talk a grunt into a fancy truck than a doctor a base truck. Pays better too.

I have an automatic in my F-150 since way back in 1997 it was decided that the 5.4 should not be meshed with a manual in a half ton.

I settled then and I can settle now.

I am not scared of tech/frills, heck I am adding cruise and A/C to my Ranger. I just redid the dash harness and added a restored factory tach cluster that I made work accurately with a V8. It already has satellite radio.

I do despise traction control but that can't be helped, at least so far you can turn it off.

The big thing that gets me mad is pricing. You mention $20k, that gets you nothing. I got a 3yo F-150 with 25k for about that 10 years ago. Now a similar truck is $5k less than new, a $20k 3yo has over 150k miles on it.

When I look across the fence and see a a $20k truck with the same miles/wear/tear that mine has but I know nothing of its history... that makes it pretty tough to pull the trigger just because it is newer.

THAT is my big gripe.

 

[stmitch]

Change that doesn't effect me? Hell yes it does if I want to buy a new vehicle without all that crap in it, I cannot do so because of the lack of customer listening that manufacturers are doing and thanks to the BS rules and regulations by our ass backwards government this stuff will in fact never be made again. You will forever be at the mercy of the multiple computers in your car getting you out of your garage if you are lucky they won't fail at the worst possible time. Many of these things were done to keep people from working on their own vehicles, not that it does any good for the environment or safety...you just can't fix stupid drivers.

That being said, if Ford actually built a new Ranger in a crew cab configuration and a bed that is actually usable, 5' and shorter beds I don't consider to be useful unless all you do is go to the airport and carry your bags in the bed LOL. If they can build something reliable and compact it will in fact sell, may people here in Idaho love the little Ranger, Nissans, Mazdas, etc. because they will go anywhere, and are small enough to be able to do so, yet have the ability to do some descent towing/hauling as well.

What happened was people bought trucks for family sedans rather than to be used as a truck...so now they want an enormous cab area, they could care less about having a usable truck bed...and what do you end up with? An explorer sport trac with a useless bed. So trucks increase in size because people want them to take the place of their family car. The Toyota Tacoma is now the size of what the first gen Tundra was, the Tacoma is no longer a compact pickup like it once was. Everything is migrating towards mid-size and full size. The compact pickup market died because people want a family size truck.

I doubt a new Ranger will be anything like the old ones. They'll be larger, and it won't be a truck base, its going to be a unibody probably front wheel drive platform like the Explorer...basically its going to be another Explorer Sport Trac with a Ranger badge .

I don't care what people buy, its their money, but damn it I should be able to buy a simple work truck without a bunch of bells and whistles I don't want and don't need. And if automakers built them they'd sell the hell out of them.

Maybe, instead of integrating computers "to make it so you can't work on your vehicle", they did it to improve them significantly? Now, you don't HAVE to work on them, and that's what the vast majority of car buyers want. They start easier, and more often now that fuel injection is around. They go longer without maintenance. They get better power and fuel economy at the same time. The vast majority of failures that occur "at the worst possible time" are mechanical in nature, and have nothing to do with any computers.

You CAN go buy the vehicle you want, it's just not coming from your local dealer lot. When you describe what you want, you're describing several million vehicles that are already on the road, but you're choosing to complain because none of them are 'new' enough. You've said a few things that you don't want if you were to buy a new truck, but what would you want? What draws you to the idea of wanting a new truck at all vs just keeping the old truck that you like, and not worrying about the new stuff that doesn't scratch your itch?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

The only problem is that soon if you are driving a non connected vehicle you will pay even more for the privilege. " They" will say its not safe giving insurance companies the go ahead to raise rates drastically.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

You CAN go buy the vehicle you want, it's just not coming from your local dealer lot. When you describe what you want, you're describing several million vehicles that are already on the road, but you're choosing to complain because none of them are 'new' enough. You've said a few things that you don't want if you were to buy a new truck, but what would you want? What draws you to the idea of wanting a new truck at all vs just keeping the old truck that you like, and not worrying about the new stuff that doesn't scratch your itch?

Rust and not having to work on it.

Just did front brakes, balljoints and front wheel bearings. Rear brakes still need done, hood shocks are weak, suspension shocks just started making noise and I need to pull the transfer case (which you can't really do without either removing the bed or disassembling the front suspension) and replace the input shaft seal. I have heard you can do it by wedging the t-case between the torsion bar crossmember and the bed and just change the seal with it still in the truck... I haven't opened that can of worms yet. One of the errors of my youth was putting dual exhaust on it, that needs redone again. I also need to remove most of the interior to reseal the back window.

And then the box is starting to go, bottom of the doors are starting to go and the cab corners are pretty much gone (but hidden so far by the doors so who cares) Fix that stuff on a dd and you are back to square one in 5 years, aftermarket steel doesn't take it near as well as factory... so you can't really "fix it"

It has been really good and has earned some lovin' and what it needs isn't really urgent or come close to rivaling a truck payment... but working on the dd is work. And since it doesn't fit in my garage I have to work around when work has an open bay for a weekend too.

I could/would go down south and try to find a better one just like it... but mechanically it would be a crapshoot if it is any better than what I have, aside from brakes and a seal there is nothing wrong with the powertrain. Rear window seals are a common problem... so it's back up three times and punt.

 

[stmitch]

That's definitely a battle. But if you wanted another truck you could get it. They're out there. It might not be as easy as just pointing to one on the lot, but it could happen. I'm approaching this from the angle of having the funds to buy a brand new vehicle, but refusing to because it's not what you want. That's what WildBill seems to be implying. He would buy a new truck, but he just can't find one he wants. If he's not in the market for new trucks at all, then there's really no point in complaining about new trucks is there?

As you've stated already, 20K doesn't buy much in a new truck these days, but if you had 20-30k to spend on any new truck, and none of the new stuff tickled your fancy, you could find an older vehicle that met most of your criteria, and use the remaining money to make it what you want. So, if you said, "I have $25k. I want a Ranger sized truck, that lacks fancy bells and whistles, but is rust free, and has a modern powertrain. I can't find it." I'd take your money, go buy a straight and solid older Ranger and proceed to build the Ranger you wanted, and probably for far less than your budget. That leaves enough to pay for service if needed (much like paying for a warranty with a new vehicle).

Just because what you want doesn't exist easily, doesn't mean it can't exist at all.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

As you've stated already, 20K doesn't buy much in a new truck these days, but if you had 20-30k to spend on any new truck, and none of the new stuff tickled your fancy, you could find an older vehicle that met most of your criteria, and use the remaining money to make it what you want. So, if you said, "I have $25k. I want a Ranger sized truck, that lacks fancy bells and whistles, but is rust free, and has a modern powertrain. I can't find it." I'd take your money, go buy a straight and solid older Ranger and proceed to build the Ranger you wanted, and probably for far less than your budget. That leaves enough to pay for service if needed (much like paying for a warranty with a new vehicle).

Just because what you want doesn't exist easily, doesn't mean it can't exist at all.

For sure, but building a DD is different than building a toy.

Awhile ago someone found a brand new F-250, V10 5 speed that a tree fell on at the dealers lot. Totalled it out, totally crushed the cab and hosed the bed but didn't hurt anything in front of the firewall. It was on ebay, I think it squeaked out $10k. Had like 5 miles on it. Wheels start turning... wouldn't it be cool to put a bullnose body on that frame?

Then you start thinking wiring out the wazoo, this isn't meant to fit with that, cab mounts... it would be a huge snowball.

Even going the other way and putting the SD powertrain into a nice solid bullnose, two axle swaps, engine, trans and t-case... and you still have to deal with a ton of wiring.

Then when it took a month of evenings and weekends to put a V8 into my Ranger with virtually no rewiring and building something like that for a DD really started looking scary. Fun for a project but kinda sketchy to get done on any kind of a timeline for a dd.

 

[don4331]

You might think a 'plain jane work truck' would sell but it doesn't. Dodge has had a base 2wd manual 3500 on the lot for over 6 months now, and they can't unload it - even though it is over $10k less than next truck on lot (It's regularly in paper as 'loss leader'). And the local Ford dealer has 3 - XLs which have been sitting for over 90 days (they were part of a fleet order partially cancelled, so discounted too boot). If I'm parting with $40k, I might as well part with $50k and get the Lariat.

Local Green Drop (lawn care company) wasn't buying manual Rangers at the end; he couldn't find enough kids who could drive them. That works for me - only a couple of my kid's friends can drive my kid's vehicles, so I don't worry about them being 'loaned out'.

If Nissan hadn't pulled all their manual CrewCab Frontier's from Canada, I would be driving one. But sales didn't justify them, so they stopped selling them. Toyota's manual is used in Tacoma's around the globe - and some places manuals still sell (So, I hope the manual in the T6 will still be available in Canada, should the Ranger come back). <I'm having issues with the premium Toyota wants for their Tacos and especially the manuals. They think they have market cornered or something.>

My challenge will be - I want a 'loaded' truck with a manual; not a 'bare bones' one. Chevrolet can't sell me anything but a 4 cyl with manual, hope that isn't case with Ford.

In the meantime, my Ranger just gets nicer, and nicer. Problem is, I can't see it lasting another 20 years (OK, maybe I am dreaming that a '18 will last until '38, but I want one more new vehicle before I am too old to enjoy it). And Ranger matches my lifestyle needs - seating for 2, box to haul all the messy stuff I work on, decent power, nice interior.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

You might think a 'plain jane work truck' would sell but it doesn't. Dodge has had a base 2wd manual 3500 on the lot for over 6 months now, and they can't unload it.

If it was 4wd I bet it would be a different story, at least around here.