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Electric Fan


MAKG

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Yup, that's the one reason to use one. With the caveat that you'll be in something else deep if you crawl the vehicle and you might want to put the stock fan back on for certain types of road trips.

Note that for occasional deep water crossings, it's much safer to just remove the fan and clutch for the crossing and put it back on afterwards. Not very hard with the correct tool (10 mm socket or box end wrench and a $15 fan clutch tool with 1/2 inch breaker bar).

While you're in the water above the bottom of the radiator, you don't need any fan at all.

The stock fan works fine with indefinite idling even in the desert.
 
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michowski

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whats even easier besides carry'ing death tools with you while offroading is just flipping a switch lol.
 

skippy

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whats even easier besides carry'ing death tools with you while offroading is just flipping a switch lol.
it's your truck,do what you want and enjoy yourself.
 

Wicked_Sludge

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One thing is that the electrical fans only have power when the switch is on, whereas the mechanical fans spin all the time at at varying speeds with the engine, although it doesn't exactly take alot of energy without the clutch locked up.
you can hold a disengaged fan stationary with one finger while the engine is running.

beyonder, if what your saying was true, then your entire electrical system would be getting the alternators full 80-120 amps anytime the motor was over about 2,000 RPM. try a test for me...hook your battery up to 120 amps for a few hours and see what happends :idiot:
 

85_Ranger4x4

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you can hold a disengaged fan stationary with one finger while the engine is running.
They still move a fair amount of air though, I doubt it is much drag on the engine but that is about the only decent excuse for the mechanical using more power than the electric.
 

MAKG

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It's certainly not much drag at all if one finger will hold it. You can't make 1 HP with one finger without injuring it...

I've never had the guts to try that, but it's nice to know.

FWIW, that doesn't really remove the deep water crossing issue because the clutch may be engaged at least at first when you dunk the truck.
 

michowski

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what if the truck sat there for about 10-15 minutes with the motor running and inside filling up fast lol.
 

calypso93

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The answer may lie in just how much air either fan moves. Since it takes more power to move more air, then the one that consumes less power should move less air. Why not just use a smaller diameter mechanical fan blade?
 

MAKG

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I suppose you could, but it doesn't do much for the deep water crossing issue, and it really doesn't change the mechanical fan dynamics very much. The clutch will just be engaged more.

The answer certainly lies in just how much air either fan moves. Electric fans have one or two choices. Mechanical fans with viscous clutches have a whole continuum.

The thing is, electricity, especially at 12V DC, isn't really very strong. You need a LOT of it to do what a good liquid fuel powered engine can do. Anyone who has screwed with an air compressor for more than driving small brad nails has run into this issue.
 

Ranger SVO

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It's no accident that all the guys who say electric fans work live well east of the Rockies. If you make this mod, you just have to hope that you never take a road trip west.
I wanna put my 2 cents worth in, I have had a Flex Lite 40 on my Ranger for about 10 years and have never experience one problem. I live in Texas and 100 degree plus temps happen. I have also made a number of trips to Phoenix and again not one problem.

My 2-cents worth
 

milje

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I know it's a few days old, but I found a good example showing what happens when you connect a load to a generator (alternator).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VHJyvKCo8k0


All he's doing is connecting and disconnecting a load to the generator, the load makes the generator harder to turn, and you can hear what happens to the engine. An electric fan does the same thing, it takes more power to turn a generator when a load is put on it.

We've done similar things in my Electrical Machines lab, hook up an electric motor to a generator, turn it on and you generate electricity. Put a load on the generator (via a rheostat), as you increase the load, the motor takes more power to turn the same RPM.
 

michowski

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ok now I want you to run a stock fan, make note of how the engine runs, idles while fan engaged, ect. Then put in an electric fan and make notes of all the same. You will clearly see, and feel the free'd up power from running the electric fan. All I want is for you to try it before you start talking down on it. It doesnt drag down the motor at all
 
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That's funny... MAKG is suggesting actual physics principles to prove why it doesn't (can't) work, but your comeback is to do an ass dyno test instead, because that's based on true scientific verifiable data (note the sarcasm).
 

TrexMex

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OK, simple math, your stock alternator is designed to take the MAXIMUM load (running your stock stereo, ac motors, high beams, etc) your electrical accessories need say, 95 amps, besides charging your battery after turning on your car (the battery is supposed to be there JUST to turn on the car, that we usually use it to have a couple of beers while cranking up the stereo volume with the car turned off is a whole different story). When you exceed the capacity of the alternator, you start pulling from the battery itself even when the car is on and revved up. This is because the alternator is completely dependent on what the max rating given by it's magnetic field, given by the internal winding of the rotor and stator. So, if you add up an electrical fan, you will be forcing your alternator beyond it's designed capacity. On the HP draw thing, I agree that you will be taking of from the HP mechanical draw from the engine, but adding up to the electrical draw on the system which does take HP in the end as well. I also agree that it will be less because it's less mass even with the added load to the alternator. Its just not a direct comparison, need to take into account that with extra accessories you'll just end up needing a bigger alt in there... I guess it's a matter of efficiency.
 

thegoat4

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About alternators: alternators are regulated to put out more or less constant voltage despite varying load and RPM. Most regulators shoot for around 14.1V these days. But looking at the votage tells you nothing much about the load on the alternator, you need to watch the amerage being put out. That's why some dashboards have ammeters in 'em.

For a given amperage output, the alternator needs a given amount of energy input. That's torque times RPM. At low RPMs and high load, the alternator pulls a lot of torque from your belt drive. At high RPM, the same load is going to need less torque.

Alternators run more efficiently at high RPMs because the current flow within the field winding is lower and therefore things don't get as hot. Plus that crappy little "fan" on the pulley is moving more air to keep things even cooler. Despite that, alternators are terribly inefficnet at best. Most are in the neighborhood of 25%-30%.

Physically bigger alternators with lower amp ratings are generally more efficient. That's not the Ranger's alternator.

An electric fan will be doing the most work when sitting at idle for long periods of time, when the alternator is at the greatest disadvantage. It's likely that using an electric fan setup will shorten the life of your alternator.

Electric motors are also lossy. Going through the pulleys, alternator, then the motor running the fan, you're lucky if you get as much as 20% of your power to actually turn the fan.

Mechanical drive can't be beat for efficiency. For every 1 horsepower put at one end of a shaft, you get 1 horsepower at the other end under constant load. 100%. Belts and pulleys are in the 95%+ neighborhood. A viscous clutch would have to waste near 80% of the power going through it to be as inefficient as an electric fan. Even though it has heat sinks all over it, they're not enough to survive that much heat. Seat-of-the-pants guess, they're 60% or better efficient on average.

The viscous clutch works by fluid drag. The relative rotation of the parts naturally pumps fluid around a circuit inside the clutch. There's a little thermometer on the front of the hub, exposed to heat from the radiator. As it heats up, a valve is opened to let as much fluid as possible move through the clutch, making max drag, and spinning the fan the fastest. But it's also the most energy wasteful mode, so the clutch itself gets pretty hot. When the radiator cools off, the valve closes, causing fluid to be collected in a reservoir, and the clutch can slip freely. This is when the clutch is most efficient.

Right at start up the fan is on at full blast for a few seconds while the fluid is pumped into that reservoir, then you can hear the fan unload and freewheel.

At normal operating temp the clutch will drag a little, but nowhere near max. When you drive down the highway the air rushing through the radiator will actually help to rotate the fan and the clutch will be unloaded and use no power. Just like an electric fan that's "off."

The advantage to an electric fan is that you've got a battery to cushion the amp draw when the fan kicks on, so you don't necessarily notice the fan suddenly loading down the engine. Also, since the fan runs at one speed only, you can use a lighter, flimsier blade, but more efficient. The factory fan has to compromise on the fan blade to make it cheap to build, strong enough not to pop at 5,000rpm, able to take revving up and down all day, and more vibration tolerant. Actually moving air is pretty low on the list of priorities.

I'm sticking with my factory setup.
 

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