BlackBII's white ranger


Jim Oaks

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Your steering came out awesome! Really good work on that! Your truck makes me want another Ranger to build a camping truck lol.
These older TTB Rangers are getting harder to find.
 


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BlackBII

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Your steering came out awesome! Really good work on that! Your truck makes me want another Ranger to build a camping truck lol.
Thanks! It seems to work well too. No binding or wandering on the road. That is what I use this truck for; camping and such. It's nice having a truck that drives well enough on the road but is also good off road to allow me to get to remote places where I can camp and hike in peace, away from actual "campgrounds".:icon_thumby:

These older TTB Rangers are getting harder to find.
Yes they are. Most are dying from bad engines, transmissions and rust and getting recycled. :sad:
 

BlackBII

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Not much of an update, but I got these in the mail today. The letters are charcoal, so I'm not sure I'll use them. I think I'll take them to a vinyl guy have some black or red ones made. The shift knob will be nice to have in place of the metal one; it gets so damn hot in the summer. :annoyed:

I'm going to start doing body work soon though, once it starts cooling off outside.

 
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1qaz

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Good choice! I love NOS!
 

85_Ranger4x4

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ford4wd08

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New guy here. Skimmed through most of your thread.

Impressive fab skills.

I must ask how your C-EPS system is holding up?

I am an engineer for the company that is OEM for steering system, and we built that kit in Virginia.

I would have never ditched a hydraulic system in favor of the C-EPS. Hydraulic is much, much more robust, leaks, whining, and all.

How did you manage the steering output control? What did you tap into for the ECU? It is normally controlled through the torque sensor and torsion bar assembly in the middle of the electric steering system.

Not attacking your steering build at all, just very curious about it :icon_cheers::popcorn:
 

BlackBII

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EPS system is holding up great. About 12k miles on it so far without any issues.

There is a guy on EBay that sells a control module for the Saturn EPS motor. It plugs into the computer and works great. There are other motors that have a fail-safe mode(Nissan, KIA, etc) that will work without the module.

I am using a manual steering gear(24:1 ratio) with the electric assist, so the electric motor really isn't under much stress at all. It has zero issues turning my 33's when rock crawling. It will even turn the wheels when at full articulation, raising and lowering the entire vehicle.
 

bobbywalter

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My credo
it is easier to fix and understand than "her"
yeah...i dug pretty deep into the kia and nis setups after looking hard at your saturn unit.

the key is that steering gear you have.


then i started looking hard at manual steering gears for increased performance with big tire applications and also came back to hydro being better for 40 in or larger tires.


but your setup to 37 in i see as ideal for guys doing engine swaps with these modern powertrains.


these trucks are disappearing... but the thing so many originally disliked....the ttb....lives on. there are so many custom ttb setups out there these days that this system with some sort of monster linear actuator could really make for awesome steering at speed.



this is definitely a build i have enjoyed...bray d and brinker along with 4x4 junkie and 85...grunizzle...and shit..theres quite a bit here.. you guys make a hell of a circle for future builders to draw upon. i am very appreciative of the time you guys take to make pics and document..

i am not good at that.
 

ford4wd08

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EPS system is holding up great. About 12k miles on it so far without any issues.

There is a guy on EBay that sells a control module for the Saturn EPS motor. It plugs into the computer and works great. There are other motors that have a fail-safe mode(Nissan, KIA, etc) that will work without the module.

I am using a manual steering gear(24:1 ratio) with the electric assist, so the electric motor really isn't under much stress at all. It has zero issues turning my 33's when rock crawling. It will even turn the wheels when at full articulation, raising and lowering the entire vehicle.
Good info, thanks for the reply.

The motor isn't the part I would be concerned with. It has a reduction set up like you have on your steering box. The original setup for that is a manual rack and pinion on the frame, but the ratio isn't near 24:1.

I doubt the motor is being taxed at all with that amount of reduction between the column itself and the manual steering box.

The reduction gear set in the worm drive is one part I would be concerned with. You have a steel worm shaft mating to a nylon reduction gear in the housing. The nylon will wear over time, and the system you have doesn't have a way to compensate for the wear (newer versions do).

I would be concerned on how the torque sensor knows how much assist to give and in what direction, that is all controlled via a magnet on the shaft assembly with torque sensor doing the reading. There is a torsion bar that flexes in the assembly in the middle to tell which direction to give assist. I have seen where the power column can fight you (give assist in the wrong direction).

Just keep an eye on it, I'm sure it will be fine.
 
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BlackBII

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Good info, thanks for the reply.

The motor isn't the part I would be concerned with. It has a reduction set up like you have on your steering box. The original setup for that is a manual rack and pinion on the frame, but the ratio isn't near 24:1.

I doubt the motor is being taxed at all with that amount of reduction between the column itself and the manual steering box.

The reduction gear set in the worm drive is one part I would be concerned with. You have a steel worm shaft mating to a nylon reduction gear in the housing. The nylon will wear over time, and the system you have doesn't have a way to compensate for the wear (newer versions do).

I would be concerned on how the torque sensor knows how much assist to give and in what direction, that is all controlled via a magnet on the shaft assembly with torque sensor doing the reading. There is a torsion bar that flexes in the assembly in the middle to tell which direction to give assist. I have seen where the power column can fight you (give assist in the wrong direction).

Just keep an eye on it, I'm sure it will be fine.
This is all very good to know. Thank you!

The control module I have includes an adjustment knob; I can increase/decrease the amount of assist the EPS provides. I haven't had it fight me at all(yet), I imagine the control module I have interprets the signal and tells the motor which direction to provide assist.

How do the newer units differ in terms of accounting for wear? Swapping in a newer unit wouldn't be difficult at all.
 
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BlackBII

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33
yeah...i dug pretty deep into the kia and nis setups after looking hard at your saturn unit.

the key is that steering gear you have.


then i started looking hard at manual steering gears for increased performance with big tire applications and also came back to hydro being better for 40 in or larger tires.


but your setup to 37 in i see as ideal for guys doing engine swaps with these modern powertrains.


these trucks are disappearing... but the thing so many originally disliked....the ttb....lives on. there are so many custom ttb setups out there these days that this system with some sort of monster linear actuator could really make for awesome steering at speed.



this is definitely a build i have enjoyed...bray d and brinker along with 4x4 junkie and 85...grunizzle...and shit..theres quite a bit here.. you guys make a hell of a circle for future builders to draw upon. i am very appreciative of the time you guys take to make pics and document..

i am not good at that.
A linear actuator would be awesome with a K-Link or Swing Style steering setup. After I built mine, I was thinking that using a buggy style rack and pinion would be a slick way to get rid of the steering gear as well. I don't know how you would get the steering shaft to line up though :icon_welder:

 

ford4wd08

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This is all very good to know. Thank you!

The control module I have includes an adjustment knob; I can increase/decrease the amount of assist the EPS provides. I haven't had it fight me at all(yet), I imagine the control module I have interprets the signal and tells the motor which direction to provide assist.

How do the newer units differ in terms of accounting for wear? Swapping in a newer unit wouldn't be difficult at all.
Power column EPS units are basically old technology now. Most OEM's have moved onto a dual pinion set up (rack and pinion with a manual steering pinion and a motor with a reduction gear set on the same rack) or ball screw EPS system (manual pinion with a motor belt driven ball screw on same rack)

The system you have is called a brushed motor set, the next version was the brushless motor set.

The brushless introduced AC powered motors that required different ECU's to operate them, they actually became MCU's (motors with ECU built in)

Along with the MCU the brushless system introduced a anti back lash system -- this includes a spring on the worm shaft assembly that applies a load to the worm shaft against the nylon reduction gear. As it wears the spring takes up the lash in the gear set.

I don't believe any GM vehicles got the brushless system, mostly toyota vehicles.

I would just stick with what you have, but keep an eye on it. These systems last many thousands of miles in passenger cars. You have the advantage of the manual gear box of 24:1 ratio. I don't believe it is wearing on your system.
 

BlackBII

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Power column EPS units are basically old technology now. Most OEM's have moved onto a dual pinion set up (rack and pinion with a manual steering pinion and a motor with a reduction gear set on the same rack) or ball screw EPS system (manual pinion with a motor belt driven ball screw on same rack)

The system you have is called a brushed motor set, the next version was the brushless motor set.

The brushless introduced AC powered motors that required different ECU's to operate them, they actually became MCU's (motors with ECU built in)

Along with the MCU the brushless system introduced a anti back lash system -- this includes a spring on the worm shaft assembly that applies a load to the worm shaft against the nylon reduction gear. As it wears the spring takes up the lash in the gear set.

I don't believe any GM vehicles got the brushless system, mostly toyota vehicles.

I would just stick with what you have, but keep an eye on it. These systems last many thousands of miles in passenger cars. You have the advantage of the manual gear box of 24:1 ratio. I don't believe it is wearing on your system.
I've seen those electric rack and pinion units and am planning on using one in my Fiat 131. They're really slick!

I will definitely keep an eye on my setup. I'll see about getting another unit in case the one I have starts acting up(I have noticed a bit of backlash; there is some play in the wheel before the steering shaft starts to move. It is a very very small amount, less than the play you get from the steering gear itself, but I'll watch it for any worsening). The good thing about using OEM parts from Junkyards is that they are cheap and easy to get. :icon_welder:

I really appreciate you taking the time to look over my thread and share all of your knowledge. I know there are a bunch of guys in the Hotrod scene doing this same swap because of how cheap and simple it is. If you were to write an article and submit it to some Hotrod websites I bet they would appreciate it. :icon_thumby:
 

ford4wd08

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I've seen those electric rack and pinion units and am planning on using one in my Fiat 131. They're really slick!

I will definitely keep an eye on my setup. I'll see about getting another unit in case the one I have starts acting up(I have noticed a bit of backlash; there is some play in the wheel before the steering shaft starts to move. It is a very very small amount, less than the play you get from the steering gear itself, but I'll watch it for any worsening). The good thing about using OEM parts from Junkyards is that they are cheap and easy to get. :icon_welder:

I really appreciate you taking the time to look over my thread and share all of your knowledge. I know there are a bunch of guys in the Hotrod scene doing this same swap because of how cheap and simple it is. If you were to write an article and submit it to some Hotrod websites I bet they would appreciate it. :icon_thumby:
I'm sure the Hotrod guys would appreciate it lol -- not sure how my company would feel about that! I don't think it is a big concern no trade secrets have been revealed.

You're welcome on reading the thread, I was shocked to see one of our systems used in ranger build up!

Just FYI - some of the lash you feel could be the the torsion bar flexing. It's funny how the hydraulic rack and pinion, column EPS, and all the new rack drive EPS systems all use the same torsion bar spring in the middle of the assembly to know which direction to give assist!

I guess if it's not broke, don't fix it!
 

Bird76Mojo

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These electric power steering setups are also being used in the custom garden/compact tractor world. From old Yazoo style zero turns to the Allis 616/620/720 & Simplicity 4040/4041/9020 series of tractor to John Deere stuff. It's getting more common all the time.




GB :)
 


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