Genius winter driving hack for truck owners

[8thTon]

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Yup, I'm a nerd. Nonetheless, the traction circle concept is one of the most useful things for understanding what's going on in slippery conditions. If you've used all the tire's traction in braking or accelerating there's nothing left to hold the vehicle latterly.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

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I think you try to hide your inner nerd...
But I see it every once in awhile.

 

[Angie]

If I'm not using the bed, I fill it with snow. Come spring it all melts out. No muss, no fuss.

we canucks think alike.... been doing just that for 25 years

 

[Uncle Gump]

But... all you canucks think Ham is Bacon...

Bacon is Bacon.

 

[Josh B]

It's always better to brake with 4 wheels than 2. A tire only has so much traction, and whatever is used to accelerate or decelerate reduces what is available for cornering (see "traction circle"). On a 2WD vehicle compression/engine braking puts all the deceleration forces on one end, rather than distributing it on all 4 wheels.

With an manual trans you can push in the clutch and instantly take all acceleration or deceleration forces off the drive wheels if it gets squirrelly, With an auto you have to feather the throttle so it's not putting any drive force on the wheels, which is slower and harder to do accurately.
View attachment 34591

Graphs, graphs, graphs! When going into a spin grab a slide-rule!

Really though, how would you use that? How would one figure longitudinal force? Speed x weight? Lateral force would come from an arc of the circle traveled when going into a spin, or angle of deflection, or??
Wouldn't our tires grip change daily due to wear(and tire pressure,outside temperature etc), road conditions and vehicle weight?

That might be very handy on a track where every possible factor was known, but how could we use this in real time driving situations?

and exactly what is ufz, and why do we need friction of a tire, when a simple grip and some traction is what we're grabbing for

 

[ericbphoto]

Graphs, graphs, graphs! When going into a spin grab a slide-rule!

Really though, how would you use that? How would one figure longitudinal force? Speed x weight? Lateral force would come from an arc of the circle traveled when going into a spin, or angle of deflection, or??
Wouldn't our tires grip change daily due to wear(and tire pressure,outside temperature etc), road conditions and vehicle weight?

That might be very handy on a track where every possible factor was known, but how could we use this in real time driving situations?

and exactly what is ufz, and why do we need friction of a tire, when a simple grip and some traction is what we're grabbing for

That’s just a graphical representation of what most of us figured out on our own by riding a tricycle when we were little kids. It’s very simple. But calculating exact numbers isn’t necessary. Driving experience is. The more experience you have, the more accurately you “know” where that circle is under different conditions. If you have to gather data and calculate, you would be better off with a self-driving car. Or better yet, stay home.

 

[8thTon]

Graphs, graphs, graphs! When going into a spin grab a slide-rule!

Really though, how would you use that? How would one figure longitudinal force? Speed x weight? Lateral force would come from an arc of the circle traveled when going into a spin, or angle of deflection, or??
Wouldn't our tires grip change daily due to wear(and tire pressure,outside temperature etc), road conditions and vehicle weight?

That might be very handy on a track where every possible factor was known, but how could we use this in real time driving situations?

and exactly what is ufz, and why do we need friction of a tire, when a simple grip and some traction is what we're grabbing for

Of course you don't calculate anything while driving, it is enough to understand how it works so you can use good intuition while driving. Do you think the average driver has given any consideration to the relationship between acceleration/deceleration forces and lateral traction?

 

[Josh B]

Of course you don't calculate anything while driving, it is enough to understand how it works so you can use good intuition while driving. Do you think the average driver has given any consideration to the relationship between acceleration/deceleration forces and lateral traction?

That's more or less what I was asking you sir

 

[Josh B]

That’s just a graphical representation of what most of us figured out on our own by riding a tricycle when we were little kids. It’s very simple. But calculating exact numbers isn’t necessary. Driving experience is. The more experience you have, the more accurately you “know” where that circle is under different conditions. If you have to gather data and calculate, you would be better off with a self-driving car. Or better yet, stay home.

Then why not simply say that?

 

[Josh B]

Actually I did start on a tricycle, then moved up to a bicycle, and in my early teens to a motorcycle(offroad most of the time) and got my first license @15 for an up to 100cc motorbike, which I rode in ice and snow and rain more times than I can remember. Even took a Honda 100 @17 on a trip with my parents up into western Canada, they stayed at a resort in Penticton and I rode it over to Vancouver for a week, through a Natl Park and some small mountains, and their first freezing rain of the season while crossing the mountains. Got some funny looks with a Texas tag on a Honda 100 in Western Canada

Down South in TX and OK our winter storms are mostly ice storms, which can do more damage than a tornado.
Around 78 I was driving a 2WD one ton Econoline van, working on a power plant in NE TX when we got 2 inches solid ice. It was over 60 miles so I left out 2 hours early and didn't get there till 2 hours late, but, I got there, only to hear from the superintendent "we're not working today". I stayed there during the week so spent the morning at a hotel coffee shop talking with a truck driver- owner/operator @ a hotel restaurant. She was waiting on repairs and needed to go to a truck stop to cash a check so I offered to take her there.

The worse part of getting in trouble while driving in adverse conditions is 99% from other drivers, and sure enough I met my "other driver" that day. While on a service road beside the Interstate, somehow, there he was, and my only out was over a curb and down a hill.
I said "hang on!" as I floored it going down the hill and up the other side as far as it would go, did a u-turn and floored it again, back down again and up the other side, making it(rather smoothly) back onto the road but going in the other direction.
She spent the rest of the day trying to talk me in to coming to work for her as she had several trucks and was buying a new one, but I had never wanted to be a truck driver. They get around, but don't get to really "go there" because their destination is to the warehouse district, and quickly on to the next pick-up

Experience isn't always the best teacher, and I no longer go on such excursions, but if the situation warrants would not be afraid to.

The best thing to have along if you really must go is experience and some common sense, and avoid at all costs high traffic areas, and in extreme conditions Any traffic areas

And of course if you can avoid it simply don't go

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Great story!

Actually I did start on a tricycle, then moved up to a bicycle, and in my early teens to a motorcycle(offroad most of the time) and got my first license @15 for an up to 100cc motorbike, which I rode in ice and snow and rain more times than I can remember. Even took a Honda 100 @17 on a trip with my parents up into western Canada, they stayed at a resort in Penticton and I rode it over to Vancouver for a week, through a Natl Park and some small mountains, and their first freezing rain of the season while crossing the mountains. Got some funny looks with a Texas tag on a Honda 100 in Western Canada

Down South in TX and OK our winter storms are mostly ice storms, which can do more damage than a tornado.
Around 78 I was driving a 2WD one ton Econoline van, working on a power plant in NE TX when we got 2 inches solid ice. It was over 60 miles so I left out 2 hours early and didn't get there till 2 hours late, but, I got there, only to hear from the superintendent "we're not working today". I stayed there during the week so spent the morning at a hotel coffee shop talking with a truck driver- owner/operator @ a hotel restaurant. She was waiting on repairs and needed to go to a truck stop to cash a check so I offered to take her there.

The worse part of getting in trouble while driving in adverse conditions is 99% from other drivers, and sure enough I met my "other driver" that day. While on a service road beside the Interstate, somehow, there he was, and my only out was over a curb and down a hill.
I said "hang on!" as I floored it going down the hill and up the other side as far as it would go, did a u-turn and floored it again, back down again and up the other side, making it(rather smoothly) back onto the road but going in the other direction.
She spent the rest of the day trying to talk me in to coming to work for her as she had several trucks and was buying a new one, but I had never wanted to be a truck driver. They get around, but don't get to really "go there" because their destination is to the warehouse district, and quickly on to the next pick-up

Experience isn't always the best teacher, and I no longer go on such excursions, but if the situation warrants would not be afraid to.

The best thing to have along if you really must go is experience and some common sense, and avoid at all costs high traffic areas, and in extreme conditions Any traffic areas

And of course if you can avoid it simply don't go

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

If I leaned just right as I turned sharp I could spin the back end around on my big wheel...

 

[8thTon]

That's more or less what I was asking you sir

I find it useful to think about how things work, and to get into the habit of using such understandings well before one is in a think-quick situation. That’s never the time to be trying to reason through something - by then the understanding has to be incorporated into your intinct.

I’ve found at times that just instinct without having thought it through can be wrong. It might feel right that you should do X, but in fact it’s not the best strategy and needs to be unlearned.

 

[snoranger]

If I leaned just right as I turned sharp I could spin the back end around on my big wheel...

I like to do donuts.

 

[Josh B]

I find it useful to think about how things work, and to get into the habit of using such understandings well before one is in a think-quick situation. That’s never the time to be trying to reason through something - by then the understanding has to be incorporated into your intinct.

I’ve found at times that just instinct without having thought it through can be wrong. It might feel right that you should do X, but in fact it’s not the best strategy and needs to be unlearned.

I wasn't knocking your post 8thTon, but actually trying to put it together in a way I could understand. It looks like someone made some sense of it somehow and I was hoping to grasp at least a bit of it. I did some architectural engineering in my early years and to this day have a collection of books full of formulas, but I'm not in tune with a lot of the newer ones. Sines, cosines, and tangents were mostly what were used in building design, basic trigonometry, but I've also tinkered with many others since then, mostly just out of curiosity, a simple tendency to try and figure things out, which for some reason seems to lean towards mathematical terms(or at least in the physical realm)