2.9 ignition issues, need help!

[88RangerXLT]

I Just bought an 88 XLT and started driving it yesterday. I have an intermitent problem. The truck loses power stall surges and jerks violently at times, I know its an ignition issue but i'm not sure why i'm having this problem. Cap,Rotor,plugs and wires are all brand new. It also sometimes has issues going over 4000 rpm. it hesitates and pops and sometimes leaves me stranded, after i let it sit for a few it will fire back up......Any ideas?:huh:

[88RangerXLT]

Just a thought, weak coil?

It runs great until it gets warm........

[holyford86]

the tfi module would cause the truck to die after warming if it was bad. if its bucking and stalling at 4000 rpm under load it might do some good to change the fuel filter and check the fuel pressure just incase.

[88RangerXLT]

I already changed the fuel filter so i'm sure i'm getting fuel. It also smells really rich when it acts up.

I'm thinking coil because i was looking in my haynes and it shows the tach takes it's reading from the coil. When my truck acts up the tach starts jumping up and down and will drop to zero even when the motor is still spinning . It also runs great until you hit higher rpm's and the motor is fully warmed up. My bet is on a weak coil starting to fail at higher loads and high heat, but i'm just not sure...........

Also, i don't get any codes or a check engine light

[baddis]

the tfi module would cause the truck to die after warming if it was bad. if its bucking and stalling at 4000 rpm under load it might do some good to change the fuel filter and check the fuel pressure just incase.



:agree: +1 it's a pain to change and might be a little more expensive but in 20 years of working on cars i have only seen 3 bad coils 2 being coil packs the other was cracked. you might check the wiring around the coil but i doubt the coil is bad

[88RangerXLT]

Sorry, but i changed the fuel filter already. And it's not only a 4000 rpm thing, it can do it anytime but usually at the higher revs......

And also, what about the tach crapping out only when it bogs down and starts to sputter/pop?

[MAKG]

How do you know this is an ignition problem? An incorrect mixture will be more difficult to light off.

RUN THE SELF TESTS.

[88RangerXLT]

It backfires and sounds as if the timing is off, i just replaceed the coil and it ran good for a few hours and then acted up again...............

[f_cubed]

If you disconnected the battery to install the coil for more than 15min the computer will lose its memory and go to default mode and have to relearn the engine characteristics so it is possible that the computer or sensor package may be causing an issue when it goes to learned mode.
Run the codes or maybe swap the computer, it is rare but not unheard of for the computer to go bad.

[88RangerXLT]

The battery was never disconnected............ I'm going to swap the ignition module off of the back of the distrubutor and see where that one gets me

[BobR]

check the play in your distributor shaft bushing. Iv seen sloppy distributor bushings cause those exact symptoms.

Bob

[88RangerXLT]

I checked that also, the bushings seem good. When i have the cap off i can't wiggle the shaft at all. I was wondering about the tfi module on the distributor?

[skippy]

let us know what you find.i have a similar issue with my 2.8 when the computer comes into play.for now i have spark advance disconnected and it runs ok,but i had to change distributer do to wear/slop in the gear/bushings before i could get it to drive decent.only emmisions part i haven,t changed is the egr position sensor,taking a break from it and refilling the bank/ranger account.anyway if you get it fixed let us know and good luck.

[BobR]

I checked that also, the bushings seem good. When i have the cap off i can't wiggle the shaft at all. I was wondering about the tfi module on the distributor?

did you apply firm finger pressure back and forth and measure it?

often there will be oily sludge in the bushing that will hold it steady for a moment but not for long (why it runs eraticly) and then redeposit itself back in there.
though I have never seen a tolerance for this discard it at 0.015"


Bob

[bro2]

I have worked on a 2.9 that had this problem it was the the pickup inthe dist. the bII i was working on would back fire and run like crap and die after running long enoung

[skippy]

when i had my distributor out i thought it was solid,several shadetree mechanic friends said (ain,t nothing wrong with dat,put it back in).finally took it to advance auto parts,mainly for the 1$ core charge(yes im cheap)and i took a moment to compare the rebuilt unit to my core,and i could feel the difference imediately.put the rebuilt motorcraft distributor in and what a difference!.80.00 bucks well spent.150,000 miles on previous distributor.

[88RangerXLT]

I finally got it!

I replaced the ignition control module on the distributor and it runs great now.

[Natedog]

did you apply firm finger pressure back and forth and measure it?

often there will be oily sludge in the bushing that will hold it steady for a moment but not for long (why it runs eraticly) and then redeposit itself back in there.
though I have never seen a tolerance for this discard it at 0.015"


Bob

Both my distributors (one in truck and one used spare ) seem to have alot of slop in the shaft bushing at the base. One has 0.022" and the other has 0.025" vertical play. Both have a good amount of side to side play at the base bushing (drive gear end)...think it's time for a rebuilt unit. I get about 5 or 6 degrees of spark scatter with spout in, but rock steady when setting the base timing (spout removed).

How are the A-! Cardone rebuilds? That is all anybody seems to carry...is there a better, best, good brand to buy?

[Natedog]

Replaced my distributor with rebuilt unit and it runs alot better!!!! Compared the rebuilt units' freeplay to all my used ones....and had no doubt that I should buy it! LOL...scrapped all but one of my worn out spares.

[Flywheel]

Hi All -

I just got an '86 Ranger 2.9, 4x4, 5spd and have gone through and replaced a few items - fuel filter, TPS, checked fuel flow, spark, timing (was retarded 14 degrees when I got it....)

Anyway - the problem I have is that when I accelerate in first gear moderately, there is bucking and jerking - if I floor it - it clears up, but still there is a surge and it seems to feel weak - not alot of pull as I sometimes get the feeling is there.....

As I accelerate through the gears - it does ok, but still seems to be missing some power.

The base timing is rock steady at 11 degrees - but the timing with the spout in is in range - but all over the place...with my advance timing light, I can see it is at about 27 - but it is not steady at all.

I see you (Nate) had some issues like this and I'm interested to see if you symptoms were similar to mine and ho well they cleared up with the new dizzy.

Thanks for any help,

[Natedog]

Sounds like a bad TPS but since you replaced it was it a NEW or a used spare? I've had several spares that were used and no good. BTW a worn distributor will make it worse and have less power. This is all asssuming that your timing chain is still good. You can chekc your chain by lining up the timing marks and with the engine off and key out...don't want it startin on ya. :) Gently rock the crankshaft back and forth carefull moving it only the amount of freeplay in the timing chain, not so far either direction as to turn the camshaft too! Watch the timing mark on the tab while doing so and you can see how many degrees of crankshaft rotation worth of freeplay your timing chain has. Please post back how many degrees you get....less is better. :) How many miles on your engine?

Bad o2 sensor and ECT sensors can mess things up too. What codes do you get?

[Flywheel]

Sounds like a bad TPS but since you replaced it was it a NEW or a used spare? I've had several spares that were used and no good.
***TPS was a new one from Autozone.

BTW a worn distributor will make it worse and have less power.
***pulled the dizy tonight - there is some lateral play in it and it sounds cry to spin it - not smooth at all - I am thinking this might be the problem.... I tested the TFI by ohming it out and many of the readings were off by maybe 10 - 20 percent....looks like an aftermarket one since it does not say Ford on it - but not sure....The terminals in the cap and the rotor were pretty severly corroded - scrapped it off about a week ago - and tonight they were nasty again - I think a new cap is in order but wonder what is causing the severe corrosion....maybe a cross between the corroded terminals and the play in the dizzy causing too large a gap here....who knows....
This is all asssuming that your timing chain is still good. You can chekc your chain by lining up the timing marks and with the engine off and key out...don't want it startin on ya. :) Gently rock the crankshaft back and forth carefull moving it only the amount of freeplay in the timing chain, not so far either direction as to turn the camshaft too! Watch the timing mark on the tab while doing so and you can see how many degrees of crankshaft rotation worth of freeplay your timing chain has. Please post back how many degrees you get....less is better. :)
***I'll check this out when I get the new dizzy in...

How many miles on your engine?
***about 60k - 80 on truck but apparently the engine was replaced with about 20k on due to freeze cracked block....anyway to tell the year of the motor???

Bad o2 sensor and ECT sensors can mess things up too.
***O2 sensor is new - air and fluid temp sensors ohmed out ok.

What codes do you get?
***No codes - I had codes, but once I finally did the test properly, it now comes up ok..


Thanks for your help - going to change out the Dizzy, TFI, cap, and rotor and check the timing chain....let me know if this sounds ok....thanks again.

[Natedog]

Thanks for your help - going to change out the Dizzy, TFI, cap, and rotor and check the timing chain....let me know if this sounds ok....thanks again.

You're welcome and sounds like what I'd change out based on your info. Spend the extra $$$ for the good quality cap/rotor the ones with the brass contacts, not aluminum.

[Flywheel]

Progress report -

Well I changed out the TFI, dizzy, cap, and rotor - set timing to 11, plugged in spout jumper - noticed immediate improvement of spark "scatter" - seemed much more solid.


test drive was great - but after driving for a couple of days - it seems like very intermittent loss of power. After idling at a light for a bit, I'll take off and the truck will buck a bit - unless I take off real easy.. then a little stumble going through the gears...oter times - it goes right through the gears great....don't know if there may have been some bad fuel in the tank that I am finally getting cleared out or what - I believe the truck sat for a while before I got it - so we'll see..

For me right now it is fine - I'll check some other things out as I get some free time - thanks for all the knowledge on this board.