Looking Into A Swap

[LittleBigFoot]

So I'm looking into runing a leafspring suspension system up front on a 2000 Ranger along with an axle swap. I'm doing my research, but what all do I need? I have limited knowledge on a swap like this and I'm sorta leeching off a friend and his dad's know-how and fab skills.

Anyone done the swap/conversion?

Any links to push me in the right direction?

Any and all help appreciated

Thanks,
Adam

[Explorin94]

I have just aquired a front axle along with leafs from a 92 wrangler. It is a dana 30 and stock leafs. I picked up the perches last night and plan on doing some measuring in the next couple of days. I got to get some steel to make the leafs fit the front and make mounts for the rear. I will probably post pics as soon as I start to show some progress. Kinda before and after pics.

Later Brett

[LittleBigFoot]

Thanks man, pics would be great. What are you doing to adapt the steering etc.?

[Explorin94]

I haven't got that far yet

[Toreadorranger]

Im not doing a leaf swap, Im doing coils, But a D44 is a much better swap under the 98+ rangers as we are heavyer then the older rangers.

[LittleBigFoot]

what do you guys think would be the better way to go? Leafs or coils? I hear leafs are a common/easy/good way to go when upgrading from the torsion bars.... The people I'll be working with suggested leafs, but either way....

[Toreadorranger]

I had planned to go with leafs, then I sold all that stuff to go Coilovers, cause they perform better on the trail. Its alot more work and design but it will be worth it in the end.

[4x4junkie]

I would use coils, they ride much better than leafs.
If you get all the parts from a Ford suspension (radius arms, coil buckets, frame brackets, etc), I don't see it being much more difficult to set it up under there than with leaf springs.
Getting the steering linkage to clear the leafs can be a bit challenging sometimes, too.

It's debatable if coils flex better than leafs (or vice-versa) though. I've seen some very good flex from either.



'98up Rangers aren't necessarily heavier than earlier ones, but Supercabs (of any year) will be heavier than std cabs. I wouldn't put a D30 under any Supercab with tires bigger than 33s.

[Toreadorranger]

'98up Rangers aren't necessarily heavier than earlier ones, but Supercabs (of any year) will be heavier than std cabs. I wouldn't put a D30 under any Supercab with tires bigger than 33s.

This is a good point, My truck is a supercab so I was thinking in the realm of supercabs.

[LittleBigFoot]

Yeah, the d44 would be the way. I read about Jim's B2 and he (or who ever wrote it) said that with leafs up front and full size axles it's road handling was greatly shit-i-fyed. I'm going to be pouring all my cash into this project and there's no way I could afford a DD. Do coils handle better then leaves on the road? I mean, I know some 250's and plenty of jeeps run setups like that....

To avoid having to fab up everything would I be able to just snatch a "complete" suspension system from a bigger truck from a junk yard, and modify it to run it on my Ranger? Besides softer coils etc... Like buy a junker f-250 and use everything from that?



Adam

[Toreadorranger]

The problem with the 98+ rangers is that the frames just werent made for Solid axle swaps. I would say the a good setup for you would prolly be a TJ or XJ Radius arm style suspension. It is easy to setup and can be daily driven with no problems. You can even use an off the shelf kit and adapt it to your truck.

This is Under a 02 or 01 I think. Its what Im refering too.

http://www.zabeard.com/zabeard/d/158-1/DSCF1490.JPG

[Explorin94]

I would use coils, they ride much better than leafs.
If you get all the parts from a Ford suspension (radius arms, coil buckets, frame brackets, etc), I don't see it being much more difficult to set it up under there than with leaf springs.
Getting the steering linkage to clear the leafs can be a bit challenging sometimes, too.

It's debatable if coils flex better than leafs (or vice-versa) though. I've seen some very good flex from either.



'98up Rangers aren't necessarily heavier than earlier ones, but Supercabs (of any year) will be heavier than std cabs. I wouldn't put a D30 under any Supercab with tires bigger than 33s.

I have a buddy who put a dana 30 under his S-10 and is currently running 38's. To my knowledge he has never had any problems with the axle. I am going to try it for now and upgrade the bearings and knuckles later.

[Toreadorranger]

I have a buddy who put a dana 30 under his S-10 and is currently running 38's. To my knowledge he has never had any problems with the axle. I am going to try it for now and upgrade the bearings and knuckles later.

Too bad we dont have the Dana30 post from the old forum. A dana 30 will not handle those tires very well. Specially the brakes.

[Explorin94]

Too bad we dont have the Dana30 post from the old forum. A dana 30 will not handle those tires very well. Specially the brakes.

Been handling it fine for the last 3 years.

[dangeranger01]

Im gonna do leafs. And here is a link to a guy on heres truck. http://members.cox.net/rhoderanger/Workshop.html

[LittleBigFoot]

What I said here was stupid.... so i erased it. My bad guys.

[LittleBigFoot]

Ok, scratch what I just said.... I found a D44 out of an 82 Jeep Wagoneerin working condition with 3.31 gears, it comes with the leafs and mounts, steering assembly, sway bar and disk brakes, driverside pumpkin, and wheel mounting surface is 60.5 inches.... he's askin 450 for it, i could talk him down to 400.... should I go for it?

[rickcdewitt]

damn thats a good find for your truck. good price too. thought id post because no one has said any thing about how you need to swap your rack and pinion for a convensional steering box and hack out the ifs brackets from under your truck. theres no going back after the torch comes out. the axle you found should be very close to your old track width.i dont know what the best steering box would be you should check out www.explorerforum.com and look at other a-arm to sas swaps guys there have done to their rangers and explorers. they say that the leaf spring waggy d44 is an ideal candidate for the 98 and up rangers and 95 and up explorers. your truck never came with coil buckets or radius arms so the leaf swap would be easier and cheaper.they can also tell you what f150 rotors,calipers,etc you need to make it 5 lug. also if you use good shocks and hook up sway bars while on the highway it should handle fine for a lifted truck,you can get awsome flex from the right leaves also. just remember that the minimum lift height is 5-6 inches so the diff doesnt hit the engine crossmember under suspension compression.you could run 35s at that lift i think, it would rip em up without broken wimpy ifs stuff:D

[LittleBigFoot]

Thats is a huge stack of good info. Thanks man.

I'm lookin into actually buying an old bronco and swapping everything, the D44 and 9". I could get the entire vehicle cheaper then the pulled axles.

This way I could also get the steering and all suspension components. In the end my Ranger would bassicly be a Ranger body and chasis on a bronco suspension and axles.

We have the ability to fab brackets etc. so that shouldn't be a problem.

Now heres a thought, if I were to use everything out of a bronco, couldnt I buy a conventional bolt on kit for a bronco? In the end this would still be cheaper then buying a lift kit for a ifs ranger and i'd have solid axles....

Thoughts?

[Toreadorranger]

just remember that the minimum lift height is 5-6 inches so the diff doesnt hit the engine crossmember under suspension compression.you could run 35s at that lift i think, it would rip em up without broken wimpy ifs stuff:D

The 98+ engine crossmember has to come out, it hangs way to low to run it at all.

[LittleBigFoot]

Ballsack.... It does doesn't it. This is turning out to be a massive project. And I'm still broke. I had to pass up on the wagoneer parts due to school fines and fea's etc.

Maybe I'll just buy an older truck and have my way with it....

Any one know of any sperm banks in CO that still pay for deposits?

[LittleBigFoot]

IDEA:

I was reading up about crossover steering. All-Pro Off-Road makes a kit for using an IFS steering box (on toyotas) I read some Yota articles about SAS and using this kit. They said it's ideal for use with the D44. The kit ends up placing the tie rods above the leafs keeping them out of the way when on the trails.

Does anyone make a kit like this for the ranger?

I know my truck uses a rack and pinion steering system. Does this system use a conventional IFS steering box?

Would I be able use a system like this?

[TRUNK_MONKEY]

IDEA:

I was reading up about crossover steering. All-Pro Off-Road makes a kit for using an IFS steering box (on toyotas) I read some Yota articles about SAS and using this kit. They said it's ideal for use with the D44. The kit ends up placing the tie rods above the leafs keeping them out of the way when on the trails.

Does anyone make a kit like this for the ranger?

I know my truck uses a rack and pinion steering system. Does this system use a conventional IFS steering box?

Would I be able use a system like this?
hey adam--i am mike's dad,you need to get over here and take a look.
i will include some links for you.you will benefit from my mistakes and discoveries.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Leafspring_conversion/leafs.htm
that gives some basic ideas of what all is entailed.
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/dana44/suspension/
these can provide most of what you need for a leaf conversion
a jeep wrangler is 3500 pounds,with a 185 horse 4.0 engine,i am sure any stock ranger would be a great match for a d30.good news is--you can have a d30 in all ways --high and low pinion,leaf(under and over axle) and coils.jeep sources for d30's are tj(wranglers) and Xj's (cherokees)
they have the same bolt pattern as a ranger as well.d30's have a bad rap i think,they have a lot of options for any way you can afford or imagine to build one.from stock/open diff,to fully selectable locker and cro mo axles. you can go coils or leafs,and of course go d44's or ford 9 in front conversions,to anything else.another option is an old CJ d30's axle C's welded to a HP d30 coil or leaf housing.then you get the old style all metal locking hubs and real wheel bearing not the unit bearings like on a d30 or a rubicon d44. if you go waggy d44 up front,you have to switch to large 5 lug fronts and new wheels,and change the rear to large 5 lugs too.or go 6 lugs front and rear.
so a d30(whichever one) means no wheel bolt pattern issues.you can go coil or leaf,and from there it is all open.
you can also possibly match gear ratios to avoid that cost as well.

[TRUNK_MONKEY]

i also think a tj or xj long arm kit could be adapted to a ranger easily. for mounting and locating the front axle.and try to avoid buying anything yet--wait until you have it all decided,why throw money away you may not be able to recover?:icon_welder:

[TRUNK_MONKEY]

Im not doing a leaf swap, Im doing coils, But a D44 is a much better swap under the 98+ rangers as we are heavier then the older rangers.
curious--how much does a ranger weigh?

[4x4junkie]

curious--how much does a ranger weigh?

A V6 Ranger Supercab is about 3900lbs stock, with around a 60%/40% (F/R) weight distribution (or approx 2400lbs on the front axle).

A std-cab Ranger is closer to 2000lbs on the front.

The Jeep OTOH, is only about 1800lbs up front.
References made about how well a D30 holds up while on a Jeep won't necessarily translate the same for the same axle under a Ranger.

[LittleBigFoot]

Hey, nice to meet you Mike's Dad

I'm still keepin all my options open.

A D44 and Ford 9" still look like my best options right now. I've really studied up and these axles seem like a really good choice for the swap. I think leafs would be pretty easy and www.broncograveyard.com has a ten leaf 4.5/6 inch superflex leaf pack... I'm still looking into using this pack upfront (because we'd be using custom hangers anyway)

I could easily buy an entire full size bronco cheaper then the pulled axles.

I have found crossover steering kits that still use the IFS power steering box.

All total what I'm looking into would run me under 1500 bucks wich is just a little over what the average SAS costs (from what I read) That price also keeps in mind the add-a-leafs and shackles for the rear too, alogn with a drop pitman arm and ubolts... Bawls, I forgot shocks... anyways...

I'm no professional at this, this is what I've gathered so far. I'm still open to other options.

[BLOODBANE]

What kit is that on the blue truck? I have a HP44 and 9" waiting to go underneath my '84 and was thinking about that kind of set-up. (with coil-overs)...

[LittleBigFoot]

http://thurenfabrication.com/crossover.html

and here's a guy who did a writeup about the installation on his IFS 4Runner

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/CrossoverSteering/index.shtml

[LittleBigFoot]

So I found a complete dana 30 hub to hub for 75 bucks.

Should I take it?

And even if I were to use the D44 and Ford 9" aren't there lug pattern conversion kits?



Adam

[4x4junkie]

No, you can't convert a D44 to 5x4.5" (not without inheriting problematic wheelbearings in the process anyway).

Spacer adapters are out of the question as well, they will not fit over the D44 hub either.

[TRUNK_MONKEY]

So I found a complete dana 30 hub to hub for 75 bucks.

Should I take it?

And even if I were to use the D44 and Ford 9" aren't there lug pattern conversion kits?



Adam

here are my own reasons for a d30 under a ranger
your bolt pattern will stay the same.
used parts(pull n save.etc) are plentiful.new parts are as well from napa,advance etc etc.
a d30 is good for the power out put of a ranger--jeep 4.0 makes 180 ish HP and gobs of torque.
lots of aftermarket support--axles,gears,u joints,brakes
d30's are cheap and easy to find.and besides in 456 gear ratio,it actually is a really strong axle.it is no d60 or d44 for sure,but very cost effective and easy to get parts for.
plus with the bigger axles,you have significant extra amount of steel added to vehicle weight.
i would suggest not replace the 8.8 you have,they are great axles in stock form.
they are available in high or low pinion,and leaf or coil spring.

[TRUNK_MONKEY]

No, you can't convert a D44 to 5x4.5" (not without inheriting problematic wheelbearings in the process anyway).

Spacer adapters are out of the question as well, they will not fit over the D44 hub either.
ahh the old unit bearing.
110 thousand miles i put on mine,they are still just fine.plus,junkyard spares are dirt cheap--get the entire axle(inner,outer and unit bearing) as an assembly.
break an axle?smoke the bearing?take off the wheel,2 bolts for the caliper,3 for the unit bearing then remove assembly.if broken,use magnet to get broken stub out of diff.install new/replacement assembly (slide in),3 bolts,2 for the caliper,re install wheel.you are back in action.
there is also the Jeep Rubicon d44.it is a d44 center section with the d30 knuckles and unit bearings.more gear options,and the same readily available bone yard parts,and full on aftermarket support of alloy axles etc etc.
will you be going nuts with 37's? no,but for the stock to mid range wheeler it is a great cost effective swap.

[LittleBigFoot]

Well, I hope you guys are still ready to throw in your two cents

I'm about to pick up an engine-less 1980 Ford Bronco with the D44 and Ford 9" and a brand new C6 tranny. For 200 bucks it's damn well worth it. I'm thinkin about going with coils instead of leafs up front. There seems to be too many problems with tierod placement etc.

The Bronco has a pretty new set of BFG A/T's at 33x12.5 (Same size I'm running now) And for the price of the bronco it's totally worth it for the wheel change.

I should be able to use the coil buckets and suspension parts from the Bronco on my Ranger right? I know the bronco is the SUV version of the (damn, is it the F150 or F250?) And I've read that people have gotten away with using coils from the F150... (I should be able to fit them if I'm using the buckets right?)

Later on I'm planning on a 302 swap and that brand new c6 shoudl come in handy.

I'll later on scrap the Bronco after pulling the desired goodies...

I also want to use a manual T-case, would I be able to use the manual from the Bronco?

What is needed to adapt the 4R44E to use the D44 and Ford 9"? I know there are adaptor kits, I think....

Now steering comes to mind.... Rack and Pinion to cross over. Hmmmm. I've seen kits that use the existing power steering box and pitman arm for cross over steering.... Who wants to fill me in. I have no idea in this case.


Sorry to ramble on so much, but I've had this on my brain a lot latly.

Thanks for your help,

Adam

[JohnnyU]

Was a solid D44 swapped in? In 1980 they first started using the TTB D44.

[LittleBigFoot]

I read into that and ended up turning down the bronco. I was pissed to find that they changed the axle. The only good thing bout the 1980 was the straight six engine...

I'll have to keep lookin

[Explorin94]

Was a solid D44 swapped in? In 1980 they first started using the TTB D44.

You're right John! 1980 was the first year for the TTB 44. If that Bronco had a C6 in it wouldn't have worked with the 302 anyway. That bronco probably had a 351M/400 big block engine in it.

[LittleBigFoot]

And thats why I come to you guys for help...